Football talking points

First topic message reminder :

Rather than hijack the "which team do you support" thread where some of these are being talked about...

Some of the events of the weekend that are getting people talking

1) Mario Balotelli: plenty to say about him in general but specifically the alleged stamp on Scott Parker and his subsequent charge by the FA

2) Lescott's elbow on Kaboul(?) - FA say no charge to answer

3) Conspiracy theories in general about Man City!

4) Wenger's decision to take Chamberlain off and put Arshavin on - and Van Persie's reaction

5) Peter Crouch and the "eye-gouge"

6) Harry Redknapp and the tax-dodging allegations and court case

Discuss!

Yes you are probably correct on Tevez Digs, in which case maybe I was a bit harsh

Just seen this on twitter...

Warning - not very work-safe

Spoiler:

Very good Davie

So supposedly both Terry and Carroll to be in the England squad. Disappointing first decisions from Roy I have to say.

Seems it is a decision between JT and Rio - he seems to want to take one but not both

Not a fan of either but I'd give JT the edge over Rio - perhaps a better decision would be to take neither

No real problem with Carroll if he is included - I believe him to be a decent player who just hasn't fitted in at Liverpool (compare with Hodgson himself). I wouldn't see Carroll starting anyway but I've no issue with him being in the squad

Will Oxlade-Chamberlain get a call?

I think Carroll is a talentless cart horse myself, and an unpleasant one at that. Liverpool have tried to accommodate him, to their overall detriment, hitting lots of long balls and crosses but he has the finishing skill of Heskey.
Terry split the squad last in South Africa and two years on the guy is even more of a divisive figure now and also declined as a player.
I think you are right Davie saying taking neither may have been an option but taking Terry to me sends out all the wrong signals. Of all the guys from the bad old days he is the first one for me that should have gone.

Diggers, what is it that makes those in and around the England team such loathsome individuals?

Serious question as I'd probably be happy for them to do well if it wasnt for the ghastly players and expectant media.

Super , there are plenty of decent guys in the squad, Baines, Lescott , Barry, Walcott, Milner etc, I dont think that Lampard and Gerrard are bad blokes either. Unfortunately the high profile few unpleasant ones tar the profile for all of them.

Can't stand Gerrard, thick, diving thug who has never really repeated his club form in international level, think he's got a serious ambition problem.
Most other countries appear to have more articulate, cultured and well mannered players. What is it in the English psyche that produces Cole's, Rooney's, Carrol's, Barton's, Ferdinand.

Plenty of decent guys like Owen, hargreaves, walcott, parker etc but they seem to be getting replaced by irksome ones.

I think theres something about the English psyche that means we have to select players who have the 'bull dog spirit', the ones who will run through walls etc. I would prefer players who have skill, pace and a good footballing brain. Terry, Lampard, Gerrard and indeed Rio have all had their day, legs have gone and none of them has ever produced their club form for country.

RH has nothing to lose here and should pick the most skillful players, even if they're kids. he has another couple of years to get the squad sorted in time for the next World Cup, and these old has-beens will not be involved then. Nobosy is going to bleat about bad performances this time, as he has a honeymoon period, especially coming in unprepared.

Doc wrote: Nobosy is going to bleat about bad performances this time, as he has a honeymoon period, especially coming in unprepared.

If only that was true Doc, but the truth is that poor performances will get slated just the same as usual

BlueCoverman wrote:

Doc wrote: Nobosy is going to bleat about bad performances this time, as he has a honeymoon period, especially coming in unprepared.

If only that was true Doc, but the truth is that poor performances will get slated just the same as usual

I have a feeling though, that any one of the senior players who don't perform will be cast aside. The interview will go like 'I thought some of them deserved a chance to show me what they could do, but it didn't work for them. So we just move on now and build a team who will compete in the WC'.

I think every team needs some experience, for instance it would be madness to drop Cole who is a world class player in form. I'd also play Gerrard as skipper in central midfield , give him license to play in a way he's never really had for England. I don't think there is another creative option in the midfield bar Lamps, and it's just a case of one or the other.

Squad out, England out in QF at absolute best with those strikers.

What out in the quarter finals just for a change then?...

So no Rio, Crouch or Sturridge

Places for Ox, Carroll and Downing

Hmmmm - no real problems with the omissions; glad to see Ox there - already said my piece on Carroll and I expected Downing there though I don't rate him

I think I'd have had Sturridge instead of Defoe and there must be an alternative to Downing - but apart from that it's not a bad squad given the pool he had to pick from. Agree QFs is about all we can expect though

Ultimately it doesn't matter what squad we pick, the outcome will be the same: a couple of ropey performances in the group stage, including a dire match against Sweden where we scrape a 1-1 draw, and it will be all doom and gloom. Then we'll pick ourselves up and win the final group game and suddenly the press will be touting us as potential winners, but of course we will then go out on penalties in the quarter finals.

3 Liverpool players is a joke and Gerrard would probably struggle to get in on present form, but 3 of them ..... Adam Johnsone should be in instead of Downing who has been a huge joke all season

No Rooney for the first 2 so going to be tough with the strikers we have selected. Looks like we're going to rely on Young for the goals

My personal view:

Definitely Rio head of Terry. Would even go with his brother Anton ahead of that total scumbag. He's a negative and divisive influence off the pitch, and increasingly vulnerable on it.

Surprised no room for Micah Richards, given Walker is injured (btw i rate Walker, good long term option at right back, hopefully England fans will get to chant "you'll never beat Kyle Walker" in the future!).

Not sure what Downing is doing in the squad. Would definitely go for Lennon.

I don't think Carroll is ready for international football. A couple of good performances in recent matches does not make up for a poor season and his finishing is not good enough at this level. If you want a target man on the bench, Crouch would be my bet. He has a superb international record which demonstrates that he can be a big game player.

I think many (if not most) of your words about JT could also apply to Rio

Think its a mistake taking Ox, he should be off to the Olympics. We have plenty of wingers in the squad, and I dont think he is ready to play through the middle yet.
I dont mind seeing Defoe, at least he has some England goals and could be useful as an impact player. Crouch should be in rather than Carroll. I also think Micah Richards should be a shoo in personally, far better player than Johnson or Jones who is presumably the right back cover.
Not a great squad IMO, quite af ew mistakes, Terry being a massive one.

I'm listening to the press conference on 5 dead and Roy is coming across tremendously well.

If England exceed expectations it will be in spite of the players dreadful attitude to international football and all down to Roy getting them to play well together.

Maybe Roys trying to show dagliesh how to get the best out of his liverpool players, because he hasn't.

Lennon better option than Downing who has failed in the England squad for years - cast him off. Richards is an awesome player and gives you another winger as well as a stopper

Downing is weird one for me. Technically he is good, very two footed, he can actually cross though you wouldnt think so this year. Should score more goals as he has a great shot on him, I think he has hit the woodwork a lot this season. That said I would probably have taken Lennon but I think Downing has gone to give crosses from the left, any of the other wingers will be cutting inside onto their right foot.

Dagliesh sacked at long last. I thought he had not only shown how bad he is as a manager, but he also dragged the club through the dirt, regarding his Suarez stance. Evra is no angel by any means, but the whole Suarez issue showed dagliesh up for being a one eyed blinkered jock nob. He's no idea about setting a team up and worked tirelessly behind the scenes to oust Hodgson from his job. Roy has actually had better results than kenny this season so if Liverpool are to move forward, who are they going to go for.

Martin O'Neil would be ideal, but would he leave Sunderland so fast.

Alex McCleash wasn't given a chance at Villa and was on a hiding to nothing and had no cash to spend.

Bruce, garbage

McCarthy not good enough

Martinez a maybe

Lambert another maybe

Will they plump for an established overseas manager or will they gamble on an up and coming manager

Would Moyes walk accross the park or is his future as red noses replacement?

I am disappointed for Dalglish, he is of course a legend at Liverpool from his playing days, his first stint as manager and his handling in the Hillsborough tragedy. His arrival reinvigorated Liverpool for a while but then it all seemed to fizzle out. And the number of games we should have won but somehow managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory was crazy. Personally I would have liked to give him another season but justifying that would be difficult.

Giving Kenny another season to sort things out would have been the safe play for fenway, by Sacking Kenny they have now put the onus hugely on themselves. They need to get the best manager they can and give him the financial support to succeed.

P.S I would love to see Martin O'Neil at the helm.

Maybe they'll get the fat spanish waiter back?

Go compaaaaaaaare!

Davie wrote:Maybe they'll get the fat spanish waiter back?

Go compaaaaaaaare!

Easily Liverpool's best manager of the last 20 years. Although he liked his FACTS, 2 CL finals and 2nd place in the Prem was good going. Rafa's hands were tied on transfers... I think Liverpool would be back in top 4 if he was still manager

I agree with the Rafa option because everyone knows the previous yank owners had lost the plot and cash. They tied Rafa's hands and made it difficult for him and as soon as Alonso was sold you knew the wheels were coming off.

Would they take the 'backward step' of approaching Rafa? How would the fans see this?

From the outside looking in, I think Hodgson was given a very raw deal, as he was left with a squad in decline, and a lack of confidence. I think the Hodgson project would have produced better results this last season if he was allowed to get on with it, and of course bank rolled like KD was.

Backward steps hardly ever seem to work. Kendal back to Everton and Dagleish back to Liverpool were both failures

I agree with Doc that bringing Rafa back would be a backwards step and probably not a good idea. Having said that, I think he has proven himself as a very good manager and is a brilliant tactician.

You cannot under-estimate the achievement of winning the Spanish league with Valencia. Real Madrid and Barca are so far ahead of the rest in terms of the resources at their disposal, it is the equivalent of Newcastle winning the Premier league this season. Going on a cup run is one thing, but finishing above Barca and Madrid over 38 games is just phenomenal. Of course success in the spanish league doesn't guarantee success in England (Juande Ramos anyone?).

Ray I think Rafa could be the best solution and he still lives on the Wirral or has a house there. Lets face it, if he's given carte blanche as he was originally given, theres no way he could do a worse job that KD managed. So think that although it seems a backward step and these things don't usually work, in this particular case I believe it could.

Already the red tops are mentioning AVB, which is crazy because for him to work some magic, he would need a blank piece of paper and a load of cash to rebuild. Too much cash already wasted on average players, so taking a loss on those will only compound the problem.

Also I don't believe theres a chance that Pep Guardiolla will want it, and again he would need to off a lot of players.

Liverpool need a top quality manager with a proven track record, and also think the fans will not accept a Big Sam type bloke as they also demand expansive flowing football.

Martin O'Niel is the obvious candidate and would be his biggest ever challenge, but he's a big gamble too, even if he was willing. Talk of Brendan Rodgers and Martinez is another gamble. Yes Rodgers teams have been great to watch over the last couple of seasons, but massive difference between Swansea and Liverpool. Even Hodgson seemed to be a bit overawed at times, and he's experienced. Martinez would also be a huge gamble, and yet again can get his team playing quality passing football and found the jump up from Swansea to Wigan not too onerous, but Liverpool is different and expectations are high. The board will be slaughtered if a younger manager was given an opportunity and fails. If a big name fails its not the fault of the board. Difficult and brave choice to made here.

Who else is there besides Harry, and I guess that the Liverpool job could be the only job he'd leave Spurs for. he loves the club and always has, especially since the days Jamie graced Anfield.

MON is going nowhere, he's a lifelong Sunderland fan. He has the rarity of having the backing of a sensible board and will have done money to spend.
Motes to Liverpool? How funny would that be, would imagine every scouters in the world would be infuriated....how great that would be.
Liverpool aren't a massive club anymore whatever they claim. Bar Suarez there squad is mediocre and must have devalued massively in the past year. Would anyone pay 15 million for cart horse Carroll, I doubt it. I think Suarez will go this summer as well.

I heard that a world record 20,000 Chelsea shirts were sold in one hour today

Trouble is they were all on eBay and being sold by new Man City fans

With regard to the Liverpool management situation, I mentioned earlier about taking a gamble on unproven managers. Yesterday it came out that they had spoken to Roberto Martinez and Brendan Rodgers, both have done wonders with their clubs and budget, but would they be able to carry the Liverpool job off. If a person deserves a chance, then they should be given a chance, but football is a fickle business and much depends upon how the fans see things, because their expectations are always at the top end, instead of being real.

Raffa going back I believe would work, and I also mentioned Harry going to Anfield, but that too would be controversial. Firstly Harry took over from Ramos and has done wonders, and got them playing some of the best football this season. He's got them into European position and he's also a big Liverpool lover. His spuds side however lost their way a bit which was probably due to the vacant England job, as everyone thought he was a shoe-in. So many spuds fans expected to see a new face at Whiteheart Lane, but will Levi ask for too much compensation, and are Spurs a bigger club than Liverpool these days?

I suspect that one man who deserves to be given the job, will not be asked. David Moyes has probably been the best manager in the premiership for the last few seasons. He has no cash and his squad is paid a third of what the squad are paid accross Stanley Park. Everton know that at some stage Moyes will have to leave, if he's to fulfill his potential, but even though in their heart of hearts, Liverpool fans would never accept him. Obviously this is crazy as I believe he's the best man for the job and could create something special, but it won't happen. The Liverpool/Everton divide is similar to the problems in Ulster, where families are divided on sectarian grounds and kids are almost brainwashed into hating their neighbours - a bit extreme yes, but probably not far off.

Ferguson chose David Moyes as his No2, when he was manager at preston. Moyes knocked it back because he wanted a chance in the hot seat, and was soon offered the Everton Job. Ferguson's 2nd choice option was Steve Maclaren who did a great job for him, before he left to try his hand by himself. Many believe that Moyes is lined up to replace SAF soon, and if so its a well earned bonus for him. But what if Man Utd think they deserve a BIG name manager like Murinio or Capello etc, where does Moyes go as theres not much left and Everton don't have the clout to keep him for too much longer. Afterall one would suspect that Moyes is one of the lower paid top flight managers and knowing in his heart that he's worth more ......

Moyes is in a different league to people like Bruce, McCarthy, Davies, Hughes, Warnock, Allerdyce etc. I suspect he's been offered quite a few jobs in the past, but has stayed loyal to Everton, but has a big club come calling before. I suspect not, although I did hear that Newcastle made an approach, before they went for Big Sam?

Doc, I believe Moyes is amongst the best paid managers in the EPL, something like 3-4 million a year. Pretty much the only way they can keep him I guess.

Must be such a struggle getting by on not much more than a meagre quarter of a million quid a month...

I tell you Blue its not easy.......

And still they need brown paper envelopes stuffed with cash to supplement their meagre income

diggers wrote:I tell you Blue its not easy.......

And with two daughters it is not going to get any easier Digs!...

Tell me about it mate, still at least for now we get to recycle the older ones stuff to the new one. Im sure that wont last forever though when she wants new stuff of her own.

It's when they want to start to borrow their Mum's expensive designer dresses and shoes that the fun really starts...

Fortunately my wife is more of a high street girl. I spent a fortune on a pair of beautiful Jimmy Choo shoes for her a few years ago, she loves them but wont wear them in case she scuffs them........thats womens logic for you.....

diggers wrote:Fortunately my wife is more of a high street girl. I spent a fortune on a pair of beautiful Jimmy Choo shoes for her a few years ago, she loves them but wont wear them in case she scuffs them........thats womens logic for you.....

Diggs I take umbrage with that comment - ladies & logic - is that an oxymoron

Talk about having your name on a trophy , unreal.

Christ we actually beat the Germans on penalties, who would ever have believed it?

Note to Harry:-

Should have shown a bit more interest in the England job

John Terry's latest triumph

Spoiler:

Chelsea look like they're in for some changes and wonder who will take sway.

AVB was told to do the business, whilst at the same time getting rid of the older players. Lampard, Terry, Drogba didn't like it and so the squad was underperforming for the young manager. So the senior players were holding the club to ransome and they did it last season as well, after Wilkins was sacked, they never picked up points for weeks after.

Now we see the ladyboy Torres come out and state that he's unhappy at the way he's been treated, which can only be because the senior players yet again, have come out and stated that they want Drogba to have another 2 years contract. Drogba although finishing on a high, has actually been a liability. Penalties conceded, tantrums and not forgetting he was missing for the penalty shoot out which Terry had to stand in and miss.

If RDM gets the nod and carries on as manager, he won't have the bottle to sort out the senior players, so Chelsea will be lucky to get into the top 4 next season. New man with a new broom needed urgently I think, afterall most of Saturday's team were Jose's players

Yet more documentation of the heroic expliots of JT...

Spoiler: