Football talking points

First topic message reminder :

Rather than hijack the "which team do you support" thread where some of these are being talked about...

Some of the events of the weekend that are getting people talking

1) Mario Balotelli: plenty to say about him in general but specifically the alleged stamp on Scott Parker and his subsequent charge by the FA

2) Lescott's elbow on Kaboul(?) - FA say no charge to answer

3) Conspiracy theories in general about Man City!

4) Wenger's decision to take Chamberlain off and put Arshavin on - and Van Persie's reaction

5) Peter Crouch and the "eye-gouge"

6) Harry Redknapp and the tax-dodging allegations and court case

Discuss!

I thought the ref did a good job last night, Rooney wasnt the only one having an unpolite word in his ear. They really need to stamp that out. I wonder why the FA are so loathe so stop this when it could be so easily rectified.

Far be it for me to tell red nose that he got it wrong last night, but I thought his team selection was strange. Jones, Smalling, Parke seemed a gamble. Jones didn't do bad, but was still struggling at times. Parke didn't do anything but run, but for me Rooney was off the pace after the first 15-minutes. he struggled with control and distribution and we saw him get frustrated again. For me he should have been brought off or given some support up top by late in the 1st half. I think Rooney is a fantastic player but really struggle comparing him to Messi. Messi is world number 1 and Rooney is supposed to be number 3 but theres a chasm between them.

Agree re the team selection Doc

I completely understood why United went 5 across the middle as a draw would have left them in a great position. But they genuinely looked like a side who don't often play for a draw and weren't too sure how to do it!

Valencia has been in great form and Park looked like a guy who hadn't played for 3 months.

The strangest thing was normally if you go with that formation you'd go 3 (or at least 2 of the 3) defensive, combative centre mids with maybe some pace and attack minded players out wide. United seemed to go the opposite with at least one defensive wide player in Park and then 3 centre mids, none of whom can tackle or even get about the place very much.

If you're not going to go with some pace out wide you're kind of accepting that you're unlikely to score as only Rooney can get near their goal. Which means to get anything you have to not concede and be tight in the middle. So they went with 3 non defensive centre mids.

Very odd from SAF

Doc, I think it is worth making the point though, how do you think Messi would have fared playing in that United side last night ?
Rooney was isolated as a lone striker....Barca dont even play with an out and out centre forward and Rooney hardly ever plays there for Man Utd. In the first half I thought Ronney held the ball up well, made space and then looked to pass to ....nobody.
Scholes has no legs, Park was a headless chicken, Carrick...see Scholes......and Giggs, Well Ive no idea what him and Nani were doing all night to be honest.
Barca always have 60% possession minimum, Barca always have at least 4-5 players in the oppositions half...so Messi always has an outlet and support from world class players.
Even Guardiola admitted that the Barca team was a homage to Messi and that was possibly a weakness. So is Messi as better than Rooney, of course he is, but I dont think Messi would have automatically come in and had a blinder last night as it would have been a whole new game for him.
Also credit to Lescott, Kompany and Barry last night who all played great.

Guardiola for Old Trafford anyone?

I know there hasn't been any serious talk of Fergie stepping down and I'm not necessarily saying he should, but it would be just like him to step down apparently out of the blue with little or no speculation beforehand. With Guardiola available it makes a strange kind of sense...

Agreed about Nani, yet another one who should have been replaced earlier than he was. There was no pace to threaten City and nani just flunked everything. I think red nose got it wrong on the night because his selection was under pressure all night. Young, Valencia would have offered more on offence than Nani and Park. Barry outshone Carrick and I thought Zabaletta was awesome last night and made a huge difference. When Richards was left on the bench I thought Mancini got it wrong, but he didn't the Zab killed Uniteds attacks and frightened Uniteds defence all night.

Doc wrote:Far be it for me to tell red nose that he got it wrong last night, but I thought his team selection was strange. Jones, Smalling, Parke seemed a gamble. Jones didn't do bad, but was still struggling at times. Parke didn't do anything but run, but for me Rooney was off the pace after the first 15-minutes. he struggled with control and distribution and we saw him get frustrated again. For me he should have been brought off or given some support up top by late in the 1st half. I think Rooney is a fantastic player but really struggle comparing him to Messi. Messi is world number 1 and Rooney is supposed to be number 3 but theres a chasm between them.

Hey Doc,
Understand your comments about the team selection, but over the years SAF has consistently picked Park for the big games... maybe he feels he has the right temperament?

Don't understand the reference to Rooney as number 3 in the world - where does that come from? Without thinking of keepers or defenders I would put Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Fabregas, Ozil, Xabi Alonso, Benzema, Robben, Gomez, Van Persie all above Rooney. Possibly even Suarez, Aguero, Drogba and Bale as well at the moment. If they did the ballon d'or now I doubt Rooney would even make the short list.

Come on Cardiff, never liked West Ham and then having Fat Sam as boss seals it for me. In some ways Id prefer them to lose a tight final.
I was at Wembley when Charlton beat us on pens after a fantastic 4 all game. That hurt.

Ray with regard to Rooney he came 3rd in the Ballon Duer or whatever its called. In other words the worlds player of the year. Messi won it for the 3rd time in 3 years or maybe 4 in 4.

Doc wrote:Ray with regard to Rooney he came 3rd in the Ballon Duer or whatever its called. In other words the worlds player of the year. Messi won it for the 3rd time in 3 years or maybe 4 in 4.

I'm afraid Rooney has never finished in the top 3 in the Ballon d'Or award.

It's all subjective though Ray. Plenty if people would have Rooney as one of the worlds top players , I personally rate him higher than a lot of the players you have mentioned.
Attacking wise though as has been said there are two stand outs and then quite a few players on more of a similar level.
Put it this way, I think Rooney would be outstanding for Barcelona, he'd IMO look every bit as good as most players in that side.

I think Rooney is far too inconsistent to be considered one of the worlds truly great players.

Very good when on form, but can't be relied upon to play well.

As for his overhead kick being named best premiership goal, what a joke, it ran down his shin you could fill a top ten with Le Tissier and Bergkamp goals, or if you want a truly outstanding overhead, look no further than Trevor Sinclair for QPR although this might have been fa Cup, that was even better than Pele in Escape to Victory.

That one was in the FA Cup Super, but agreed it was every bit as good as Rooney's. I'm not sure i can agree with the Rooney one having come off his shin though - harsh!!

Personally i loved that Cantona goal v Sunderland, but then i have a Cantona bias!
Also one in the Cup but does anyone remember the Cantona one v Wimbledon when Neil Eardley headed it to him on the edge of the box? The ball doesn't touch the ground, first touch to set it, second touch volleyed straight in the top left hand corner. Absolutely brilliant!

I remember a Chris Waddle goal for Bradford v Everton in the fa cup being amazing too.

Tony Yeboah, Mcfadden and yorke have also scored amazing goals that go virtually unnoticed

I think the Yeboah one was in there. Only the one v Liverpool though. He score danother worldie against Wimbledon like the week after and that was pretty much as good

I was at the Wimbledon game for that goal, it was indeed a screamer.

Anyone else feel its wrong to have the FA cup final with 2 league games left ? It's meant to be the domestic finale. Not that I can pick a winner, do I want Liverpool to win 2 cops...no. Ditto for Chelsea. I guess I lean slightly toward Chelski because I like Di Matteo....but then that means Terry a medal. This is so hard!

I agree with everything you say Digs. The cup final should be the last game of the season but I don't think this is the first time that it's happened.

Can't pick a winner either for the exact same reasons; can't they share it?

Well let's hope it's a good game anyway Grumps. I hate the way the FA Cup is now valued well below finishing 4th in the EPL. If you were a player surely it's about winning a few medals and ditto for the fans.
I'd rather Sunderland won the League cup than finish 4th, it's not like we'd last very long in Europe anyway.

Agree with you digs on the fa cup final. Bit by bit they are slowly eroding its prestige . Moving it earlier adding sponsorship by bud... I'm waiting for it to move to a mid week competition next.

I'm sorry but rooney is ridiculously over hyped in this country . Sure he is capable of some stunning stuff, a bit like Gerrard , but he is way too inconsistent . He sometimes disappears in matches and can go weeks without doing anything . That's why i group him with a long list of good players and not standing out at the top. Maybe he'll prove me wrong and join Barcelona but i doubt it.

And no way was his goal the best ever in the prem . As has been said we can all name plenty of better goals, but rooney is just over hyped as usual . If crouch had scored that goal it wouldn't have made the short list

The problem, so to speak, was that goal of the premiership was voted for by fans. So goals scored by players in successful teams would attract more overseas votes than the likes of Crouch and Yeboah.

Did Bale's volley against Stoke make it onto the list? I thought that was pretty nice, same goes for the Di Canio volley against Wimbledon(?) too. I actually think Bergkamp's goal against Leicester was better than the one against Newcastle.

Was the Final any good Digs and anyone else who happened to have watched it. I was out on the course at the time so I missed it but as I wanted neither team to win it didn't bother me too much. It's funny how the fixtures seem to go; Chelski would have played Hooftheball this weekend anyway and now they have a rematch at Anfield.

It's a shame that the cup has been devalued now. I remember as a kid it was such a big event. ITV and BBC would have the game and the buildup started at 9am. Jimmy Tarbuck and other celebrities would play a match beforehand with legends of the teams contesting the final. It just seems like it's another game now.

Glad to see that the title and relegation won't be decided until the final day. A big game for Wigan and Blackburn today, Rovers need to win otherwise they're down.

Agony and elation this weekend with QPR snatching a win at the death and Bolton throwing away a two goal lead. The race for third continues as Arsenal shoot themselves in the foot yet again. Fair play to Norwich though, not just there to make up the numbers.

Wil have to decide which game to watch this weekend, all 10 fixtures are on at the same time across the Fox channels.

1GrumpyGolfer wrote:Was the Final any good Digs and anyone else who happened to have watched it. I was out on the course at the time so I missed it but as I wanted neither team to win it didn't bother me too much. It's funny how the fixtures seem to go; Chelski would have played Hooftheball this weekend anyway and now they have a rematch at Anfield.

It's a shame that the cup has been devalued now. I remember as a kid it was such a big event. ITV and BBC would have the game and the buildup started at 9am. Jimmy Tarbuck and other celebrities would play a match beforehand with legends of the teams contesting the final. It just seems like it's another game now.

To be honest I only watched the start and end Grumps, the last 15 minutes was pretty good. Glad to see Carroll didn't make himself a hero, looked like a good call from the linesman.

Went to watch a Charity match yesterday between Rovers and City. Good to see lots of ex-players support the Children's Hospice - we had Nigel Martyn in goal, and at one point our forward line consisted of Jason Roberts, Barry Hayles and Jamie Cureton.

A few celebs too, including "Spice Boy" Chris Wood, who played up front for City. Imagine Peter Crouch without the skill, and you're halfway there!

Particular praise for Roberts who played for at least two thirds of the match, and spent the rest of the time signing autographs. He could easily have turned up and come on for the last 10 minutes or so, just to fulfill his promise to play. Restored my faith that not all footballers are overpaid, self-indulgent idiots!

Managed to blag into an Executive Box after the game for a drink - so good result all round. Oh - and Rovers won 7 - 6.

Well thats 2 out of 3 of my hoped for relegations from the prem sorted, just QPR to go and I'm happy. As for Blackburn and Kean's insistence that he'll still be in charge next year is a joke. To be fair to him he shouldn't have been offered the job, and the venky's are total twats and should never have been allowed near a football club. I laughed this morning when I heard on the radio that the owners were shocked to find they could be relegted .... They imagined they were in the prem for life ffs.

Robbie Savage has given them some stick as well, as he can't believe whats happened to his old club, and once they got rid of Williams the old chairman and then big Sam, the writing was on the wall for them. Funny how things turn out, as big Sam looks like replacing them in the prem next season.

Mary_S wrote: Imagine Peter Crouch without the skill, and you're halfway there!

So basically...Peter Crouch in most games....

diggers wrote:

Mary_S wrote: Imagine Peter Crouch without the skill, and you're halfway there!

So basically...Peter Crouch in most games....

harsh but fair

Grumps,
I watched most of the cup final. I missed the beginning but recorded it, and ended up fast forwarding quite a bit as it was so dull. Liverpool looked like a lower league side in the first half, actually they did in the second half too... they just created a threat by lumping it long to Carroll. Shocking to see a team with the supposed calibre and pedigree of Liverpool playing long ball. They've done it quite a lot this season... from what I've seen Suarez looks a fantastic player but appears completely out of place with the aimless long ball / kick and rush style of play.

I read with interest yesterday that the SPL had delayed their judgement on Rangers being allowed to play in the SPL next season. Delayed until 30th May (Scratches head)

Bill Miller had agreed a deal, but reading that report I expected Miller to pull out.

MILLER HAS NOW PULLED OUT.

So SPL I hope your pleased because it looks like Rangers will have to go into liquidation and start again. The harsh punishment meted out last week was bad enough, but this is the final nail in the coffin for a once proud club.

As with all things in football administration ..... You don't know what you're doing ......

Unfortunately I worked with a muppet hooftheball fan and his actions have made me really despise all things hooftheball, so much so, that I take great delight in their failings now.

My missus and I now disagree about who should win tonights rematch between them. I want Chelski because it means hooftheball will be stuck in mid table obscurity. She wants hooftheball as it means Chelski will struggle to finish in the top 4. I think that would just give them more encouragement to win the Champions League and screw the 4th place team. However if we beat West Brom on Sunday I don't really care.

We must be careful what we wish for Grumps. Ideal scenario for me is for the Gooners to beat West Brom and and secure 3rd - then Chelski win against Brian Munich and the Spuds to miss out. It's all a little close at the moment though

Liverpool have just gone 1 up but this is a pretty meaningless match anyway - I can't see Chelski making 4th place outright so their only hope is to beat the Brians and therefore that 3rd place is so very important

As I type, Liverpool have gone 2-0 up and Terry is having a torrid time!

I happened to walk into a pub at the time hooftheball scored the first one and I think this result will spell trouble. Thing is Davie would you really want Chelski fans to be able to flaunt European success to go with the FA cup.

Spurs were only so dangerous this year because 'Arry didn't give a stuff about the Europa League and played shadow squads saving his players for the premiership.

Anyway as long as we beat the mighty West Brom we'll wrap up third and St Totteringham's day.

Grumps - strange as it may sound from a Gooner I have no problem with Chelsea fans. My local pub is full of them (and 'Appy 'Ammers)

I have no real issue with Chelsea as long as they aren't playing Arsenal (nor the West Ham fans though that may change next year if they win the playoff).

I reserve my bile for Spuds fans and ManUre ;-) .. at one time I'd have added Liverpool to that list but they aren't even on the radar at the moment

Doc wrote:
As with all things in football administration ..... You don't know what you're doing ......

I think these administrators know exactly what they are doing and it should not be allowed. They are getting £600 p/hour, cherry picked by Craig Whyte and they are getting all the mileage they can out of this. If that means liquidation so be it, they are a bunch of crooks just like their mate Craig Whyte.

REd I was really meaning the football hierarchy when mentioning administration, not administration companies. The governing bodies are idiotic, self serving gentlemen's clubs

Survival Sunday as its been billed. All 10 games are being broadcast simultaneously live in the US. I can have 2 on at the same time, so there's a lot to choose from. I think I have to go with the Man City/QPR game to compliment the Gooners.

Hope this weekend lives up to the billing. Come on you Gooners.

Now that was funny, Utd fans everywhere devastated. Joey Barton, what more can you say about him , he never fails to deliver.

What an amazing day to finish the season. Once Arsenal went 3-2 up and looked like holding that lead (for a change) I was able to relax and watch the shenanigans

Barton should never play again. I fear that his antics will be overlooked a little because of the rest of the drama of the day but he really should have the book (if not the whole library) thrown at him today.

The first elbow on Tevez was a deserved straight red, then the cowardly sucker punch on Aguero was a real disgrace - and then he tried to nut someone else on the way off the pitch!

I was playing golf today and just about got into the clubhouse bar at 3pm KO time. To see the way it swayed from Utd, to City, and back to Utd was amazing - City 2-1 down with about 3 minutes of regular time to go - and what a finish from Aguero. Utterly fantastic finish to the season, especially for City fans and probably the neutrals too

St Totteringham's day finally arrived (if a few weeks later than usual) and now Arsenal have secured 3rd place I can support Chelsea whole-heartedly in the CL final!

Phew - I'm still recovering from all that excitement.

Barton is just a total headcase. But his antics contributed to the 5 minutes Fergie-time, and they do say that everything happens for a reason!

Happy to see Arsenal secure 3rd spot - hopefully RVP will stay.

I think today's games certainly lived up to the hype but if you just looked at the table after the event you would have missed half of the story.

The title changed hands 4 times, the race for 3rd was the same and Bolton or QPR were relegated. Add in red card madness, soft decisions, blind linesmen and a trip down memory lane where you could shoulder barge keepers into the net to score all contributed to a heady afternoon.

On a personal note it was good to eventually celebrate St. Totteringham's Day at last; mind the gap!

So looks like McLeish is on is way, not a sacking that will garner too much sympathy I would imagine.
Also interesting that Gary Neville is going to join the England squad in a coaching role, presumably whilst still being Mr Sky? Interesting to see how that works out.

I wish someone within the Sky set up would post a video of neville's reaction off camera yesterday. Unbiased my backside

To be fair though Doc, wouldnt you think less of Neville if he wasnt a bit gutted ? The way he spoke about the games afterwards was pretty impartial andh e was raving about teh Premier League and how exciting it was more than anything else.

Not being bitter Diggs, I would just love to have witnessed his actuall off-camera demena.

On the same subject though, I was appalled at the very biased Nial Quinn at the recent Manchester derby. I'm not a united fan, but listening to him that night I really wanted them to do it yesterday. he was quite subduesd yesterday when looking at all the fans in blue leaving early, crying, kicking scarves, seats etc.

I agree re Quinn Doc, I like Quinnn and have a lot of time for him as he did a lot for my club, but I have no idea why he has been commentating on the City games for Sky lately. Completely impartial....not!!!
Again I dont really blame him, he just shouldnt be doing it, seat on a pundit panel fine, commentating on the whole game, no way.

Anybody any thoughts about the latest Keane situation. We do know he's flown over to India to see ChickenGeorge, but the stuff on you tube is awesome. He talks disparagingly about big Sam - the guy who gave him a job in football and then took Sams job from him. He says he is going to make Phil Jones into a great player and then sells him and the best is telling fans that he can guarantee them a top 10 finish because he knows what he's doing. When will people in the public eye, learn to keep their mouths shut in public, espcially when out getting tanked up.

After Tevez's offensive 'RIP Fergie' sign, perhaps it was a shame that Joey didn't elbow him a bit harder?

Tevez deserves anything he gets Blue. Mind you Id be amazed if he actually knew what RIP means, I dont think the guy can speak a word of English, he was just handed the banner by a fan, doubt he even knew what he was doing.
The Barton thing continues to be hilarious, he really is a tool. Looks like a 10 game ban, though I was reading a piece by a lawyer (and a QPR fan)this morning saying as he tweeted that he acted violently deliberately to try and take someone with him, he could in theory be charged for violent conduct. Guess it would have happened by now though if that was the case.
Mind you, rugby players gouge out people eyes and never seem to get sent down for it which doesnt seem quite right.