US Open 2012

First topic message reminder :

The 112th US Open gets underway on June 14 at The Olympic Club in San Francisco, California. It is the 5th time that the US Open have visited and low scoring has not really been seen previously. Take a look at prior results, where extra time was needed on two occasions:

1955 Jack Fleck tied Ben Hogan at +7. Fleck went onto win the playoff shooting -1 to Hogan's +3

1966 Billy Casper tied Arnold Palmer at -2. Casper triumphed in the playoff by the same score as Fleck; 69-73

1987 Scott Simpson finished at -3 beating Tom Watson by a shot. They were the only two players to finish under par.

1998 Lee Janzen came from 7 shots back to win finishing at even par ahead of Payne Stewart.

But this won't be the same open as 1998. A lot of improvements have been made to the venue culminating in a nine year tree management program. Don't be alarmed, it's not the tree removal program that the good folks at Oakmont entered into when they removed every single one on the course. There were lots of evergreens and underbrush that gave the Olympic Club the feel of being very claustrophobic, dark and narrow. It was almost as if the players were in a chute not able to see from one hole to another.

This narrowness also affected the playing conditions and options; players were protected from the swirling winds, recovery play was limited and the course became wet, soft and spongy due to reduced sunlight and air flow. A short time into the tree management program the benefits became evident, the increased sunlight and air movement quickly enhanced the characteristics encouraging drier, firmer conditions. The apparent widening of the holes will now offer players different strategies for each hole and increased angles into the greens whilst exposing them to some of the winds that they were previously protected from.

The course has also been changed to fit professional play, measured at 7,170 yards the course will not be same one that the members play. Featuring lopsided nines, it will play as 34-36, with the only par 5's coming on the back nine. The front nine will pose a stern opening test for the players with no real let up until the short par 4 seventh. The first has been changed from a 520 yard par 5 to a par 4 although it does play downhill. The par 3 third measures in at 247 yards and the par 4 holes of five and six are close to 500 yards too.

In contrast the back nine offers the shorter par 3's, both less than 200 yards albeit one being a yard shorter than the front nine eighth, and back to back par 5's at the sixteenth and seventeenth. Expect the seventeenth to be reachable and tempting to the players as the USGA try to encourage a spread of scores from an eagle to a bogey. This could be a crucial hole in determing the winner on Sunday.

This year sees the USGA continue the use of a split tee start but there is a twist this year too. The starting holes will be the first and the ninth. The ninth is very close to the clubhouse so it made sense to start there rather than ferrying players out to the tenth. Will it be easier for players to start from the ninth, maybe? But they will also have to start from the first on the other day. Starting from the first they have 12 holes to recover from the hard start, starting from the ninth they have 10 holes to build a cushion for the next 6.

Moving onto the runners and riders, the field is yet to be finalised and four spots remain TBD. There is a cut off for the top 60 players in the OWGR after the Memphis tournament this weekend so there will be some anxious players and alternates eagerly awaiting the latest posting of the OWGR as of Sunday. The first tee shot of the tournament will come on the ninth hole from Shane Bertsch at 7am PT, 10am ET and 3pm BST. As usual the USGA have tried to pick some marquee and fun groups for spectators to look out for.

The no pictures please group of Tiger, Phil and Bubba

The best players in the world right now group of Luke, Coco and Lee

The cheat stick brigade, who the USGA will be watching closely, group of Webb Simpson, Adam Scott and Keegan Bradley

The former champs group of Els, Ogilvy and Cabrera

The appeal to the asian market, and known by their initials, group of KJ (Choi), YE (Yang) and KT (Kim)

The almost young guns, almost living up to expectations, group of Rickeee, Ryo and Dustin

The didn't they do well just to be here group of:
Casey Martin (qualifying medallist and disabled player who took on USGA for the right to use a cart or buggy)
Dennis Miller (director of golf from Ohio of YouTube fame, check out his putt to make it through a qualifiying playoff)
Cameron Wilson (A) from the relatively local Stanford University golf team

With the weekend play expected to finish at 7pm local time there will be some late nights and early mornings for for UK based viewers as the USGA have decided to finish during the East Coast primetime tv market.

I have to admit that I didn't find it in the least interesting or entertaining to see top golfers struggling to play what looked like a rather scruffy course! Might end up watching the Le Mans 24-hour race over the weekend instead.

Ian Poulter put in a fairly decent score yesterday and has also been relatively quiet on the Twitter front recently - I wonder if that is connected?

Darkside (McLaren ) is reporting the following...

Morning groups
Average score 75.26

Afternoon groups
Average score 74.59

Which seems contrary to what I watched. Sky Sports Golf has just tweeded the exact same figures but t'other way around - which is right?

My money would be on SSG

Agreed LP
I hear people say how nice it is to see them playing like us but i would rather see them playing great golf. I can see people playing like me anytime i like!!
Unless every golfer in the world has gone downhill this course does seem to be very tough. I wonder if Rory taking Congressional to pieces last year has meant the USGA have set this one up particularly tricky.

All of that is fine, but it doesn't make the best viewing for me

Sorry but do not agree, after all this is a Major, and the course should be tough, so all aspects of their game is tested.

It looks like keeping it in the fairway is a priority, I also like the run off area's around the green, this is a good test of their short game, greens are hard and fast, as you would expect of a US Open

Looking forward to the next 3 days

It's the US Open. Last year was a bit of an exception, but it's never going to be a birdie fest. The courses are the toughest of the tough & reward steady unspectacular play. The survival of the fittest. Bring it on!

OP that's fine, each to their own and that but i don't realy get the logic of making the course impossibly hard in order to 'test' the players.

I wonder why they didn't make Colin Jackson jump 40 hurdles in 110 metres to make it a real test? The fastest guy still wins right??

Plus, it's not fun to watch people hacking it out of the rough through the back of the green. Not for me anyway

I must admit, I am not a fan of courses, that just become birdie feast for the Pro's. I like to see the top players tested in every part of their game, and this is what we are getting. I am enjoying, watching top players, trying to get it around in level par.

Davie wrote:Darkside (McLaren ) is reporting the following...

Morning groups
Average score 75.26

Afternoon groups
Average score 74.59

Which seems contrary to what I watched. Sky Sports Golf has just tweeded the exact same figures but t'other way around - which is right?

My money would be on SSG

This was highlighted on the darkside and shock horror, Mac admitted a mistake. Probably his stripy glasses got in the way.

Fair enough OP
I would rather see the opposite and i guess that's why we see this different ways. I enjoy seeing these guys do things i can't do. Yeah ok they might be able to hack out of the rough a bit better than i can, but i'm talking about short irons to 3 feet that spin back and that sort of stuff. I will watch it though all the same!

OP some of that course I feel isn't a true test of golf. By that I mean it punishes the good shot unfairly thereby not making it fair. I'm all in favour of a tough test and a winning score thats over par, but some of it is comical.

Here's an anology for you. At my course this summer the team have got the greenkeeping staff to make a few holes tougher by allowing the first cut to grow really long and even encroach onto the fairway. On one particular hole which is a long par 5, you and I are playing. For this exercise I'm playing off 28 but can hit a long drive, whilst you play off 12 and don't hit a long ball but are very accurate. I hit a wild drive that carries 260 and bounds down the fairway into the first cut. You hit a brilliant drive which is straight down the middle and carries 220 yards, but because of a sloping fairway in this area, your ball kicks to the right and runs into deep cabbage. I can reach in 2 with my wild drive that carried this area, whist you'll be lucky to get on in 4. No justice, and even if you took an iron the ball would still kick into this area. A shorter hitter on the Olympic course cannot do what Tiger can do and just use an iron off the tee to ensure he hits fairways, because he would have to play a lot of those holes as par 5's. Luke has the best stats on tour and thats why he's number 1, but he doesn't stand a chance there. A great course is set up with just the right amount of risk and reward holes, but here for some most is risk without any rewards

Not so sure I agree 100% with that Doc. I don't usually buy this "punishing of good shots" line that many people (not just you) are taking.

To me, if a shot is punished, it's not a good shot, by definition!

The US Open is about managing your game. Not sure I agree that Luke has no chance. He just didn't play well yesterday. He hit just 6 out of 14 fairways, only 9 greens in regulation & 36 putts (joint worst of the day). Now if he had putted as well as Lee Westwood did yesterday who had similar tee to green stats he would have got round in 71. It's about knowing where you can miss greens & getting up & down when you need to. This is something that Luke can normally do really well. You will get bad bounces & it will be a war of attrition, but it's the US open so people shouldn't be surprised.

Davie/Faldo I agree with that, but with regards to Luke and that course. Luke misses a few of those fairways because the ball didn't stick and just ran off. You could say that he over clubbed, but because of his legnth an iron would have left him no shot so he had to gamble. Looking at it from the other aspect, ie Bubba who's really long, he's no chance either because he can't hit a straight shot and has to avoid the trees somehow so this course gives him no chance, but yet again he's a top 10 player. This is one course where I think distance assists. Woods hitting a 6-iron well over 200 yards uphill is a case in point, after using a 5-iron off the tee. Most others were using 3-wood and hoping they were left a shorter iron shot, but gambled with the ball sticking to the fairway.

I love it, its fantastic viewing and not because i see top players struggle, but because its a real test of a players golf. But a course needs to suit your game, and you have to be able to adapt your game to suit a course. This course however is impossible on some holes for a certain type of player, so will always be chasing the game to catch up, however good they are.

#1#2#3 group off and Luke birdies the 9th (his 1st) - the comeback is on!

Doc
I do not think the course is that long at under 7200 yards, so Luke should not have any problems clubbing it, but you need to put the ball in the right place, and if you don't then you are punished, and Luke was punished.

The cut line may fall at +6 so there's time left but not much for some. Luke, never looking comfortable this week, won't make it. Coco has a slight chance and tad better form. Laird is turning it around after birdieing the last two holes.

Update: Noticed the whole lot has been jinxed now. Nobody's going through.

I hope the cut line is higher than that Venice just so Casey Martin gets to play the weekend

1GrumpyGolfer wrote:I hope the cut line is higher than that Venice just so Casey Martin gets to play the weekend

By the way things are trending, +7 is not out of the realm yet. Need about 14 guys to fall apart from +3 through +6 to the +7 crowd.

On the official website, it says the cut is +8 does the 10 shot rule apply in this one?????

Cut sorted at the top 60 plus equals, 8+ looking dodgy so far

oldparwin wrote:On the official website, it says the cut is +8 does the 10 shot rule apply in this one?????

Believe it's only the top 60 plus ties.

Doc wrote:Cut sorted at the top 60 plus equals, 8+ looking dodgy so far

The +8's need 17 blokes to bloke it. Not necessarily impossible.

Looks like Martin will just miss out. He bogeyed his last hole too today. Feel really sorry for the bloke

A shallow look at Saturday's final group:

Player ______________ Born ______ Resides ___ Age __ Yrs Pro __ Wins ____ Last Major Win

David Toms ______ Louisiana ___ Louisiana ____ 45 ____ 23 ______ 17 ____ 2001 PGA Championship
Jim Furyk ______ Pennsylvania ___ Florida ____ 42 ____ 20 ______ 26 ____ 2003 U.S. Open
Tiger Woods ____ California _____ Florida ____ 36 ____ 16 ______ 73 ____ 2008 U.S. Open


They've gravitated to residing in the southeastern region of the U.S., they're old, they've played a long time, they have a lot of victories and they haven't won a major within very recent years. Don't think it translates into victory on Sunday for this trio but looking at the rest of the leaderboard one has to wonder where the challenge is going to come from those 2 shots back on a course which isn't giving much and taking more.

I wish they would show more aerial shots of the course and the surrounding neighborhoods as Frisco is looking mighty good this entire week.

I would agree venice that there will not be a translation into victory for those over 40, however would not be surprised to see the 36 year old there or thereabouts though...

Agree BC about TW but more intriguing now that he's as vulnerable as the others. Being tied at the midpoint in previous years the odds would have been about 80/20 for a victory, now it's more along the lines of 20/80. (which aren't necessarily bad odds)

The constant chatter and verbal fawning from the press over Woods is as embarrassing as always. Somethings never change. Maybe I'll check in with the Sky broadcast today to see if it's the same story.

Hopefully we'll get some live golf on Sky in about half an hour from now - and I can see chances for some of the guys from level par up to about +4 or +5 but Tiger has got to be in the box seat right now. I'm still not convinced he's "back" - but from this position if he doesn't go on to at least a top 3 finish I think he'll be very disappointed.

Someone like GMac could take him on though - it would be quite nice to see a rejuvenated McDowell take Tiger on for the 4th day. And also from a Euro or Brit point of view I'd like to see Westwood and/or Rose have a strong day on moving day

As well as Pad and Sergio and Charl within good striking distance.

Update: Forgot about Ernie. Would love to see him in the hunt tomorrow afternoon.

Is that Lee at -2 through 7? Nope... -1 through 8.

Looks like the leaders are going to be over par, and plenty of players now in with a chance of winning it, would say right now those at 5 over are still in with a good chance of winning it.

A birdie from Lee over the last two holes would put him nicely in the midst of things.

Mary_S wrote:A birdie from Lee over the last two holes would put him nicely in the midst of things.

He granted you your wish.

Yay - great round from him today!

And Ernie has tied him with an eagle! The leaderboard going into Sunday is going to better than anybody imagined.

Hossler the 17 year old looks like a name for the future, he really has played well today, looking at how most of the Pro's have struggled with how hard the golf course has played

Have to wonder if Hossler's performing well because of no pressure but he still has to work the course. Certainly impressive.

Playing in Captains day tomorrow/today early start time to go to bed!!!

This Hossler kid, I know I shouldn't, but I really want I'm to cock it up! His face annoys me, and that stupid walk and fat ar*e. There's something about him I really don't warm to. Is it just me??

MustPuttBetter wrote:This Hossler kid, I know I shouldn't, but I really want I'm to cock it up! His face annoys me, and that stupid walk and fat ar*e. There's something about him I really don't warm to. Is it just me??

I know what you mean MPB, he reminds me of fatty Overton so I don't like he look of him either. Plus he's beating my pick in the fantasy league so all in all he don't have a lot going for him.

Both Rickeeeeee and Cantplay with lovely tee shots at the short par four seventh. Nearly made holes in one and both walked off with easy twos.

I really hope this is Westwood's moment! If the winning score is over par, I really think he'll be the one to out stay the others.

Hope so Red. Plus I picked him in the Fantasy league and that would help me reel in Blue

I reckon we could get an ace on the seventh. Karlsson just made eagle after a very nice tee shot settles close to the pin. That could put a car amongst the pigeons if someone vaults up the leaderboard.

1GrumpyGolfer wrote:I reckon we could get an ace on the seventh. Karlsson just made eagle after a very nice tee shot settles close to the pin. That could put a car amongst the pigeons if someone vaults up the leaderboard.

I hope it is Westwood!

This young lad Woods looks nervous.
Anyone still think he might win it?? What a start?!

MustPuttBetter wrote:This young lad Woods looks nervous.
Anyone still think he might win it?? What a start?!

That first chip shot on the 3rd today was probably the worst shot I have ever seen him play!

The second wasn't much better Red!

MustPuttBetter wrote:The second wasn't much better Red!

Yeah, it was an easier shot and the contact was equally poor. I guess we could say that was easily the worst two shots I've seen him play back to back haha.

Pass the matchsticks please! Have managed to stay awake to see the last group tee off, but not sure I can manage another four and a half hours!

Would love to see Lee do it, long way to go yet.