Euros 2012 - Predictions and general chatter

First topic message reminder :

A bit short notice I know but I just got notification of this

SportsGuru (the predictions site that the people on the darkside use for rugby pools etc) are running a predictions comp for the Euros

I'm entering anyway but I've set up a Golf Chat league if anyone wants to jon in

The main site is at www.sportguru.co.uk/euro2012 - you'll have to register if you aren't already but it's free registration and it doesn't seem to send too much spam or share your details with anyone else

Once registered (or logged on if you are already registered) you can go to the Euro 2012 section and search for an existing pool - you can search either by the pool name "Golf Chat UK" or by the pool code "byestogs" (without quotes)

Then all you need to do is predict the results! You can make all your picks for the group matches in one hit, though beware, once you've made a pick you can't change it. So if you want you can predict for the 1st round of matches and then wait until you see how they go before picking the rest - or just do all the group matches in one hit

Let me know here if you apply to join too so I can accept your application

Tournament starts tomorrow so get to it if you want to join! I can't see us getting that many entered but you never know, we may get enough to have a bit of fun

Not that pretty but its working. What I dont mind about this England side is that its not all hoof ball. they play on the break for sure but they do try and work an attack. Its not all clicking yet but I can see it getting better.
The extra days rest is massive for Parker and Gerrard and they wont have to chase nearly as hard in the midfield as they would agaainst Spain, Pirlo is class but he is as leggy as our two now.
Still no idea what Milner is meant to be contributing though.

A couple of points about the goal that never was...

Firstly, some praise surely for John Terry for getting back and putting the "goal" in doubt. Sure he's not the quickest anymore and he gets a lot of stick (sometimes rightly) - but that sort of thing shows why he still holds down an England place. That wasn't skill, or fitness or turn of speed that helped him clear the ball from off/over the line - it was sheer grit and determination - the "you shall not pass" mentality. Well done JT

Secondly, the old argument of goalline technology again. This incident proves to me that whatever system is put in (and I agree it needs something) - needs to be MORE than just goal line cameras. Depsite the number of times it was shown last nght, I saw nothing that proved to me 100% that the ball HAD totally crossed the line. The only shot that seemed to "prove" it was one that was graphically enhanced - but one must ask who and what enhanced it? All the stop-motion shots of the incident were to me inconclusive (though I'm prepared to admit that it "probably" was a goal, it certainly wasn't anything like as clear cut as Lampard's shot at least a yard over the line

The same thing is true when TV is used on offside decisions -but the technical TV director (or an operator) is responsible for choosing which frame of picture is frozen to prove or disprove any decision; viewers seem to take this sort of "proof" as fact, yet often if the frame before, or the frame after was chosen, and it's not always easy to choose which frame is the one where the ball is played, then the director almost has it within his power to "prove" any decision correct or incorrect; the same is true of "ball over the line" incidents

The they shall not pass mentality worked on that occasion, however it hasnt been working that well in regard to gifting the other teams free headers which should be the one thing he should have no issues with.
He has done OK, for me Lescott is by far the better of the pair and improving every game. Id still much rather Terry wasnt there, he is the one sour note in the performances so far.

Davie, how about the third thing that the guy who 'scored' was offside anyway!
Seems to have been coveniently overlooked by everyone, as if we were lucky to not have conceded!

Funny how Sepp says technology is a neccessity now...........

Yeah I mentioned that in my post last night shortly after the incident MPB

Ah i missed that, apologies
I've heard loads of talk on the radio about how it's fair that the goal wasn't given because of the world cup etc
It never levels that out. This wasn't a goal, he was offside?! It would have been an injustice if it had been given. It can't possibly therefore also be an injustice that it wasn't given!

It again just odd to me that the over the line debate gets all the attention.
What about Rooney clearly having his shirt tugged in the box. Thats a nailed on foul according to the rules and should therefore have been a penalty. Nobody even mentions that.
The game is full of reffing errors but only the odd one or two ever seem to get highlighted.

I see the little winker has done it again for Portugal although it did look increasing likely that Portugal would score

Got to be said that it was a good goal and performance from our least favourite player...

That semi is going to be tasty, if Spain make it through there will plenty of players all too willing to give him a kick.

1GrumpyGolfer wrote:That semi is going to be tasty, if Spain make it through there will plenty of players all too willing to give him a kick.

That would certainly be something to look forward to!

He's not my least favourite player in terms of watching, love seeing him play. The best player at the tournament by a country mile.

What better than Milner Digs?

That's a tough one Blue, they both offer such different things ......

So are the Germans going to stuff the Greeks or are 11 mighty warriors going to hold off an empire?

The German press have basically all predicted an easy win and the sentiment has spread into team selection. They're either very confident in dropping their starting front three or tempting fate to end up getting bitch slapped by a down trodden nation.

Well if it goes to penalties we know that it won't be the Greeks going through!

Vorchsprung Deutsch Tecnik or whatever it is, German efficiency will take over at that point.

Well there's plenty of useless German golfers in the BMW, maybe that will spread to their footballers

The greeks have surprised everyone so far (as they did in 2004) - I wouldn't be shocked to see them do it again - however just as I'm typing this Germany go 1-0 up

Are the Greeks taking it easy on the Germans because they need them for the bail-out money?

Would you Adam and Eve it. Come on the Greeks !!

Darn - it was too good to last.

Oh....

Oh dear, ruthless German bar stewards

Germany 1 - 5 England, not too ruthless that day

More like toothless that day Blue

Spain are incredible if you look at the side tonite. Busquets, Alonso, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, and Silva, all central midfielders really. They should be really narrow and there isn't much pace there yet the movement and passing is so good it works.

They are getting so much space down their right side too as Clichy seems to be sucked in to wards the middle and there is nor real cover for him

I really don't remember Alonso being this good when he was at Liverpool - did they not get the best out of him?

He was pretty good for Liverpool , but I guess he has blossomed around better players. Really nice guy as well apparently.

Do France realise they have to win this to stay in the competition?

And as I write this they just give away a stupid penalty

Spain going with the minimalist approach and still have left plenty in the tank. Tasty semi coming up against The little winker and Portugal

From what I've seen, Portugal are a one-winker team. Spain *should* get through comfortably

Us v Spain final then?

I'm not sure Spain have a lot of goals in them against the better sides, mind you scoring against them isn't easy.
I certainly prefer watching the Germans who I think could get at them. Could be a factor that the second semi is on Thursday though , only 3 days rest after a tough game (hopefully) and then you have to chase shadows against Spain (if they best Portugal) who have an extra days rest.

I have got a feeling we might just nick a narrow win tomorrow, just can't see us getting past the Germans though

England's defence is looking good, so would expect the Germans to struggle to score, think England might be good to reach the finals (yes you heard that from a Scotsman) but Spain is a different matter.

I think that England will either either go through by one goal, or win the penalty shoot out. No particular logic to this, just a feeling in my water.

Oh well - good job I didn't wager any money on that prediction! Still, it saved us the humiliation of a thrashing by the Germans in the semi-final.

Well there's a surprise, we lose on penalties

Not sure we deserved to even take them to penalties to be honest, but once we did take it that far I thought, for just once, we might do it

Well another championship chapter closes for England, and in the same manner as usual. However I feel a lot more optimistic about things, and there was much positives to take away from this tournament. I questoned some of RH's selections prior to going as I felt that Rio was a miss, Micah Richards, Adam Johnstone etc should all have been shoe-ins. Roy was proved correct, so I take my hat off to him. The organisation seemed to be brilliant too on the part of the FA, so well done.

We need to be honest about it though, and accept that we were lacking in a couple of departments over every game we played, and that was composure and skill/control. We were on paper the most highly paid players in the championships, but showed yet again that the level of pay our players recieved, doesn't match the level of skill asscociated with it. We were in fact outplayed by every team we played, which is a shocking recrimination, but fact. We did however for once, show fight, commitment and played as a team in the most part. I recognise that we had a couple of players missing through injury, but would these players have made a difference.

Positive performances came from Hart in goal and the back 4 in general. Johnstone at right back was outstanding, and I didn't fancy him, but he was awesome on the whole, and was almost as good as Cole on the left. Terry another one I didn't fancy was great and fought the good fight, and was almost as good as Lescott. So a sound base we already have in place. The problems in midfield caused our downfall as we couldn't seem to have the composure to put our foot and the ball and spread it around without losing possesion to quickly. Gerrard was brilliant throughout, but his attacking style and skill level was subdued as he had to spend too long chasing shadows and defending. Parker for most of the time was winning ball, but struggled to gain composure. Ashley Young surprised me as I thought he had the worst run of games from everyone, as he was abscent throughout, and his skill is in attack not chasing back and covering for Cole. In fact Cole was further forward that Young, so he was ineffective and maybe should have been benched. Milner was a workhorse, and got in a few decent crosses, but again was forced to defend most of the time, so playing wingers as defenders didn't work, but could see the reasoning behind it, but it didn't work. Walcott was ineffective except for his first run out and on the whole was missing for most of his time on the pitch. The OX was good in bursts and looks to have a promising future. Of the forwards I thought Carrol was excelent although lacked a bit of skill, but he fought well, and scared the oposition to death when played. Last night he won every ball pumped forward and gave the Italian defence a torrid time. Rooney was unfit, underpowered and didn't do himself justice. Welbeck showed glimpses of a promising career, but was out of his depth especially last night. So we need a bit more creativity in midfield and up front, that's what was missing, but can we find decent players or two to do that role, or do a stoppers role so that Gerrard can rampage forward. Last night we showed we can compete, as for much of the first half we took control, and were unlucky not be ahead at half time. However we must remember that this was probably the poorest Italian team to leave their shores, and we should have competed better. We were very poor in the 2nd half and were lucky to go into extra time and winning via a shoot-out would have been an injustice to Italy in the end.

Plenty to be pleased about, but no cigar

We really needed a Paul Scholes type player to assist Parker and Gerrard, but do we have one in the country at the minute. Hargreaves has been a big loss, as has Ledley King who can also perform that role. I think we need to be looking beyond Lampard and maybe hope that Sir Alex can make us another Scholes/ Hargreaves over the next couple of years. We have a number of players who may not be mobile enough for the World Cup, so shouldn't we start making the changes now? Players like Terry, Lampard maybe even Gerrard need replacements lining up, but the problem we have in the premier league is that English players are at a minimum, due to foreign players. Arsenal under Wenger have tried to buy the best young kids but find it hard to get them in, unless they're exceptional. Wishire was a big loss to us, but the Ox showed flashes, but Theo has been in and out for years and never made the breakthrough. Which prem clubs have English prospects who could make the grade for England?

Wilshire was the big loss in this tournament for me. So were Barry and Lampard to a lesser degree.
Wilshire has energy, holds the ball and can pass. We probably need a system that incorporates two holding midfielders to allow Wilshire to play. There is no point having wide players like Ox or Walcott if the never get any ball and are isolated when they do.
We were pretty awful last night, I was feeling a bit more optomistic before the game but last night destroyed that really. There is a lot of work to be done and changes to be made but Hodgson has gone 4 4 2 all his career so can really see him changing now.

Agree with most of what you say Doc .. my take on a few things...

In Joe Hart we have one of our few (if not THE only) world class players. Should be between the sticks for England for a long time to come. Looked just a little flustered at times last night, punching when he should have been catching, but generally very sound and a real good shot stopper. Shame he couldn't have pulled out a couple of penalty saves. Don't think we would have progressed as far as we did without him though

Johnson and Cole: fairly indicative of the rest of the team that I thought these two (along with Hart) were England's best players. Like Doc, I wasn't over-struck by the selection of Johnson but he proved me wrong and can certainly hold his head high. Cole also still looked very good (apart from his penalty) and can consider it a good tournament for him personally

Terry and Lescott did OK - Lescott was very solid and JT did what you would expect of him, despite being exposed for pace at times he kept putting his body on the line and showing lots of guts and pride in the England shirt

The midfield were awful - plain and simple. How players of their supposed calibre can have reached this point in their careers with such awful lack of skill and ball retention is beyond me. Parker showed plenty of guts but no real skill and Gerrard is fast becoming another Emelyn Hughes - all wild, gangly crazy-horse runs with lots of enthusiasm but nothing to back that up. Milner was rubbish the whole tournament and Young was very disappointing

Up front, they should have left Rooney at home; another disappointing tournament from him. People say he was "rusty" but honestly he only had himself to blame for that too (if he hadn't got that red card in the last qualifier he would have played all 4 matches and wouldn't have had the "rusty" excuse. He also should have been fit and fresh after missing the warm up matches and first two games, but instead he looked tired and lacklustre

Carroll did OK when called upon - certainly has the strength to scare defences and maybe should've been given more game time. Welbeck was "average" - looks promising but still a little out of his depth at this level

Theo continues to be an enigma (though I still feel he plays better for England than for Arsenal - he frequently disappears in club matches yet has rarely let England down)

Ox is another plus point I suppose; I'm still a little puzzled why Hodgson trusted him to be thrown into the deep end of the starting lineup against France (arguably the most important of the group matches) and I thought he performed pretty well before being subbed, yet he was limited to shorter sub appearances after that. Surely he could have provided more than Milner or the under-performing Young)

Time to kiss goodbye to the old guard (with the possible exception of Cole) - Terry's time is up and I also think Gerrard has had his day. Maybe even Rooney? Arsenal really need to get Wilshere fit again and although I wouldn't want him rushed back to England duty after such a long spell on the sidelines, I think Arsenal need to get him back as soon as feasibly possible - if he really DOES have a long term problem with his foot/ankle then it would probably be best to find out now. Cahill will come back into the team also

One positive I suppose is we leave the tournament unbeaten and with another clean sheet

I don't think that having the most highly paid players in the championships has anything to do with the level of skill associated with it. It's more about an indication of just how much income our premier league is able to generate.

I am glad that you feel there is plenty to be pleased about Doc and for all those who have made positive comments about Englands tournament. For me I have just got that familiar hacked off feeling this morning

On a lighter note best comedy moment last night was when commentator Mowbray said, in true Frankie Howerd style, "There's Cassano, powering one into Ashley Cole's backside"

And given Cassano's comments earlier in the tournament as well!

Doc i'm glad you feel positive matey because the whole tournament has left me thoroughly fed up with England.

I didn't expect us to win it, that's fine but in a tournament where most of the teams (maybe us and France aside) have really given it a go we were an embarrassment.
Yes, some individuals were decent - Hart, Lescott, Cole, Gerrard - but i struggle to think of a single positive from a team point of view. We were not difficult to break down at the back, we did not work hard in midfield neither were we creative there, the wide players contributed zero, and up front well..............!
Rooney is not world class for me. He's barely average at an international level. Even poor teams have a forward who is involved as a focal point. Rooney hardly touched the ball. He does not and never has had the ability to pull England out of the crap like true world class players can from time to time. Welbeck took on more responsibiity than our apparent wonder player.

And as for all this talk of us overacheiving to get to the quarters - what rubbish. Ok to top the group was unexpected and even that doesn't look quite as impressive having seen France play Spain. But who honestly believes us finishing above Ukraine and Sweden to get out the group is an overachievement?! That's it, that's all we achieved. Wow.

Our tournament ended when it was always going to end - as soon as we played a half decent side. No problem with that. But the way we went about it was a joke. We basically voluntarily ducked out at the first opportunity and they're trying to tell us we should be proud. Ha

Sad sad time for English football

BTW I'm going to merge this thread onto the other Euro 2012 chat thread (as it's a sticky) - just so you know where it's gone!

MPB I pretty much agree with all of that. The best thing to come out of Euro 2012 for me about England is having a manager whose interviews you can understand. Roy Hodgson speaks intelligently and with a lot of common sense. I wanted and thought that Harry would get the job but perhaps Roy may turn out to be the better choice in the long run. I certainly hope that we make some progress leading up to the World Cup 2014 and perhaps with Roy at the helm we will