Football talking points

First topic message reminder :

Rather than hijack the "which team do you support" thread where some of these are being talked about...

Some of the events of the weekend that are getting people talking

1) Mario Balotelli: plenty to say about him in general but specifically the alleged stamp on Scott Parker and his subsequent charge by the FA

2) Lescott's elbow on Kaboul(?) - FA say no charge to answer

3) Conspiracy theories in general about Man City!

4) Wenger's decision to take Chamberlain off and put Arshavin on - and Van Persie's reaction

5) Peter Crouch and the "eye-gouge"

6) Harry Redknapp and the tax-dodging allegations and court case

Discuss!

Red if we're bring pedantic you said 'Balotelli is a mad genius', not 'like a...' but fair enough I take the point

Digs, my definition of genius I'd have to give some thought to answer properly but I do agree he has all the potential. I'm not saying he won't one day be a very good player. But whatever my definition of genius is he in no way so far has even come close. At the moment he's barely better than good

For sure no way a genius, but a lot better than decent for me. If he doesn't sort his head out it could be a very flawed career. I like him on the whole , he's interesting , but some of the stuff on the pitch is just a joke.
I wouldn't call Tevez, or Rooney or Drogba or RVP a genius so the bar is set pretty high for me as they are clearly all fantastic players.

I'd agree re the level as I wouldn't call those 3 geniuses either. I haven't seen anything from Balotelli that I haven't seen from plenty of others this season who are no better than 'good'.

I'd liken Balotelli to say Denilson. The one who was at Betis not the Arsenal one. He went to Spain for huge money at a young age amidst talk of him being the new worlds best player. A genius they said. Would anyone describe him as being a genius? No. He fell to bits. As Balotelli probably will. Shame but I'd be surprised if not correct

I think the phrase genius needs to be reserved for the more creative and inventive players, Bergkamp, Maradonna, Messi, Cruyff, Henry, Ronaldinho, Neymar, and Ronaldo has matured into that sort of player after being quite wasteful in his early Man U days. I think Balotelli is like a young Ronaldo, just makes bad decisions but has bags of potential. He could go either way, end up like Ronaldo or end up like a Denilson.

One of the things that baffles me about the money that was thrown about for Andy Carroll is that he is just a big battering ram. He is not devoid of skill, he has pace and a touch, but he doesn't have half the technical ability of Balotelli. Look at the start Jelavic has made at Everton, he is a big strong forward but he has a great touch and can play a bit too. If they wanted a partner for Suarez there were was better value out there. When things go wrong for a skillful player they can always fall back on their technique.

Thinking about this, in some ways I differentiate players ability with the ball....clearly someone like Messi is a genius with the ball...from players who almost seem to see the game ahead of them in a different way from other people. Its almost like understanding maths I think and cant really be learnt.
Gazza was a great example of this and Ive heard him talk about how he could see things other players couldnt see. I do actually think there is a bit of this in Rooney, his ability to drop back and dictate play probably is his biggest asset, his anticipation of whats about to happen is just about in the genius bracket. However the rest of his game, although very good, isnt at the level of a Messi or a Ronaldo. Mind you I used to think he would have a short career but the more I see of him the more I think he could actually change to a Scholes type role as he grows older....same tackling ability anyway.

In relation to the debate re Premiership managers this is quite interesting, shows the worst managers ever for a particular tenure at a club.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rundown/least-successful-premier-league-managers-113441372.html
Shows why I dont have much time for McCarthy, bad memories. Well done to Sunderland for having 3 in the top 10, we know how to pick them. Least we have a decent one now.

Bit of a harsh article really for Terry Connor. Didn't get much of a chance with the transfer window not just closed but nailed shut. Same players, same results. I guess McCarthy had to go after being humiliated at home by West Brom.

Derby with two in the top 5 from their ill fated season a few years back. 1 win and 11 points in total. I think it was the barcodes who were the most generous to Derby.

Interesting to see that Watford stuck with Graham Taylor all the way through the season en route to what was a then Premier League record of fewest points.

Cannot believe the BS sanctions the SPL are placing on Rangers now. It should be Craig Whyte that gets the shoeing, it is he who has driven the bus into the wall. A 12 month transfer embargo is a joke considering the charges against them had nothing to do with transfer dealings, they are bound to appeal that aspect of it.

Red, I agree but do you think this has something to do with the proposed sale to the yank. In effect he wants the SFA/SPL to accept Rangers in the SPL even though it will be Rangers 'NewCo'. He has promised that at some stage he will reignite Rangers 'OldCo' and bring it back into the fold, which just means he'll do it once all debts have been written off completley.

We had a similar experience at Leeds when Bates stole the club, as he formed 'NewCo' and came out of administration without a CVA. Leeds were lucky to be allowed to keep their league status, but were docked another 15 points. We were told that we could have been relegated to league 2 or even the Blue Square, as what happened with Luton Town. Maybe the SPL have agreed to allow Rangers to keep their league status under a 'NewCo regime', but need to show a punishment. I think the yank has threatened the SPL by saying a deal cannot be done unless the SPL accept the new company. failure to agree would mean liquidation and the doors closing.

Theres been for far too long an underlying problem with football administration in the UK. The FA/FL/PL/SFA/SPL all seem to have bent over backwards to allow undesirable elements into club ownership. It should be them that take a hit because they never did their homework about Whyte in the first place. The Rangers sale to Whyte was a long drawn out, acrimonious affair, and surely they should have had a look into him. So it can't all be Rangers fault. As usual its the club fans who are punished for the failings of league administrators, who are more concerned with making money than actually administering correctly.

The Luton Town case is a classic. Luton went into administration for the 3rd time in 4 seasons, and the club was run by the same cretins. They ran the club as their own fiefdom and flouted all sorts of FL rules, including agents, bungs, unregistered players etc, etc, etc. The club went bang, and a consortium of fans got together to buy the club, sort out the debts, and run the club properly. They were allowed to do this, but were still thrown out of the league and are still even now struggling to get out of the BSL and back into league football. The fans and this consortium did nothing wrong, but the previous owners and board are allowed off scott free with no penalties, even though they actually broke some laws, not just rules. Maybe Rangers should say fook it and join the Football League down here ...

Red, Rangers had been doing dodgy business deals for years, White was simply the straw that broke the camels back. You should count yourself lucky that he was found out because your club might not have existed in a year
Of course it was transfer related, and so a transfer embargo is entirely justified.

They were buying players whom they could not afford and not paying the tax properly.
Time to disband Scottish football and focus on something else instead.

super_realist wrote:Red, Rangers had been doing dodgy business deals for years

Such as?

super_realist wrote:
Of course it was transfer related, and so a transfer embargo is entirely justified. They were buying players whom they could not afford and not paying the tax properly. Time to disband Scottish football and focus on something else instead.

The tax case has not even come to a conclusion, tax avoidance and tax evasion are not the same thing. Tax avoidance is perfectly legal, EBTs were legal at the time and no wrong doing has been proven. I guess small things like facts don't matter when you are trying to be a know all.

Doc wrote:Red, I agree but do you think this has something to do with the proposed sale to the yank.

If they had release a full statement along with the sentence, we wouldn't be left guessing. The club will naturally contest this, but if it is in relation to the tax case and players salaries then I can see them going after or titles too. Quite bizarre really since the court case hasn't delivered a verdict.

So you don't think Rangers deserve to be punished? Administration is basically cheating. They deserve everything thrown at them by the spl. I hope they go into liquidation and never darken the spl door again. Scottish football is enough of a joke without them still being around.

Worth it just to see the sad minky fans greeting their soap dodging eyes out.

super_realist wrote:So you don't think Rangers deserve to be punished? Administration is basically cheating. They deserve everything thrown at them by the spl. I hope they go into liquidation and never darken the spl door again. Scottish football is enough of a joke without them still being around.

Worth it just to see the sad minky fans greeting their soap dodging eyes out.

Ah, change the direction of the discussion because your arguement has been found to be flawed. It doesn't matter what you or I think, all that matters what the court decides regarding the tax case. As for administration, I don't recall any transfer embargo continuing beyond administration for Dundee, Clyde or Airdrie. Rangers have already been docked points for being in administration in accordance with the leagues guidelines. I hope they fight it tooth and nail, as I very much enjoy your ill informed, self loathing rants about Scottish football.

Well how do we think it is going to go at the Nou Camp tonight...are Chelsea going to do it?

Chelsea to go down fighting in my opinion. I can see them putting up a good show but losing 3 or 4 goals. I can see them scoring but perhaps only one and 3 or 4 will see Barca through

BlueCoverman wrote:Well how do we think it is going to go at the Nou Camp tonight...are Chelsea going to do it?

No.

Expect a strong reaction from Barca tonight after their defeat at the weekend. Am going for 3-0.

John Terry proving yet again what a complete twat he is

Oh dear oh dear - what was JT thinking.

JT has his critics, but to be fair most of that is about off the field antics rather than on. Dont think I can remember him ever doing anything so stupid on the field

I must admit I was hoping Chelski would make it to the final and then lose along with missing out on a Champions League place in the league so all they had was the Europa next season.

I lost track of time and didn't realise it had started so I was going to ask but Davie and Blue's comments say it all. Be a tough ask to keep the scoreline at 2-1 for the second half with 10 men and a makeshift defence. More goals to come in this one methinks.

Chelsea now have Bosingwa and Ivanovich playing centre-half after Cahill went off injured in addition to JT's red

The Sky commentator just said they'd be lucky to keep a clean sheet in 45 minutes of a PL game never mind against Barcalona

10-man Chelsea now will probably need to score at least two more in the second half to have a ghost of a chance

JT's red card could go down in history as (in)famous as a Rooney or Beckham lash-out, Cantona's kung fu kick or Zidane's head butt

Maybe the gods are with them with Messi missing that penalty. Odds on the turkish ref giving Barca another one?

Looks like there will be heartbreak at the death for someone. 15 minutes left; will there be one hero or 10 heroes at the end?

In the Premiership Villa took the lead and in the few minutes afterwards shoot themselves in the foot and now trailing. They have a chance to pull themselves away from the dog fight but seem unable to do so. Bolton with a strong chance to claw their way to safety.

Chelsea might struggle to put out a team for the final with all these cards that they are picking up. How much Barca time will the ref allow?

F me! who says 50 million quid was wasted; what a way to pay it back.

Unreal , I was actually screaming for Chelski, fully deserved. Ashley Cole in these two games has been utterly awesome, he's made Messi look average.

One word: Unbelievable

Speechless!

I wonder where AVB is tonight...

I hate to say it but the character Chelsea showed tonight was incredible. Well done to them.
I'm not sure Torres's goal pays much of £50m back! But I hope that helps him get back on track.

No surprise re Villa. If they held on in every game they took the lead they'd be top!!

MustPuttBetter wrote:I'm not sure Torres's goal pays much of £50m back!

I don't know MPB, how much is a Champions League final worth? Got to be a few bob

I guess the odds were heavily on them going through anyway despite Torres goal, but it was the icing on the cake.

Oh no doubt. I just mean that they didn't need to pay £50m for a forward who could put that chance away. I think I could have!

By the way Lampard with an exquisite pass for the goal, another one for the video reel.

Just going back to JT for a moment, what the hell was he thinking? I just found it extraordinary that a player with all his experience should do something as crazy as that, especially with Cahill already off injured.

I thought that at that point the Chelsea captain had consigned them to defeat and at 2-0 expected a Barca landslide. The Ramires goal gave a glimmer of hope but even after the Messi penalty miss I still expected Barca to go through. Unbelievable Chelsea performance in the 2nd half, Roberto Di Matteo take a bow.

MustPuttBetter wrote:Oh no doubt. I just mean that they didn't need to pay £50m for a forward who could put that chance away. I think I could have!

I hope that you wouldn't have given the ball away as much beforehand as well!

It would be hilarious after his previous penalty miss in the final if Chelsea's finest hour came despite Terry rather than because of him.
He will forever now be tarred by both that miss and sending off....couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

BlueCoverman wrote:

MustPuttBetter wrote:Oh no doubt. I just mean that they didn't need to pay £50m for a forward who could put that chance away. I think I could have!

I hope that you wouldn't have given the ball away as much beforehand as well!

At least as much ha!!

Redrage, how are my rants self loathing? Scottish football is an absolute joke at club and national level.
No Scottish club will ever get passed the qualifying stages again and neither will the national team.

Craig Levein should be banned from picking players who play in the spl for the good of the national team.

raycastleunited wrote:

BlueCoverman wrote:Well how do we think it is going to go at the Nou Camp tonight...are Chelsea going to do it?

No.

Expect a strong reaction from Barca tonight after their defeat at the weekend. Am going for 3-0.

Wow, how wrong was I?

Like most people, when Barca were 2-0 up and playing against 10 men, I expected the flood gates to open. Even mid-way into the second half I still thought it was only a matter of time before they broke down Chelsea's 10 man defence. But there were some tremendous performances from Chelsea... Ashley Cole restricted Messi better than anyone else I have seen in the last couple of years, and Drogba ran himself into the ground providing an outlet for the team and also filling in at left back at the same time.

Over the course of 180 minutes, probably one of the biggest travesties of all time. The fact that Torres will get a lot of the glory is also a travesty, I've always been a fan of him but he was awful... lazy, uninterested, wasteful with his touches, in fact the complete anti-thesis of the hard-working team spirit displayed by his team mates.

Di Matteo should abandon the league now and focus on the CL final. That trophy is the holy grail for the club and also represents their best chance of playing in the competition next year. Hopefully he will play a reserve side for the visit of QPR this weekend.

If Chelsea win the final then the fourth place team in the league has to go into the Europa league. Harsh.
Hopefully Bayern will get there and pump them though and we can see the wretched Terry crying his girly eyes out again.

Well Terry wont be playing so if we do see him crying it will be from the sidelines

I'm still shocked at his stupidity - like many others here including super, I don't have a lot of time for Terry off the field but that really did seem out of character for him. You can criticise him for his off-field antics and many can and will criticise him for his on-field ability (rightly or wrongly) - but he always shows utmost commitment and I don't recall him ever resorting to anything like that

super_realist wrote:If Chelsea win the final then the fourth place team in the league has to go into the Europa league. Harsh.
Hopefully Bayern will get there and pump them though and we can see the wretched Terry crying his girly eyes out again.

I hope Bayern dont get through, mainly because im not a fan of clubs in the final playing at home. Also I just have never had a soft soft for any German football club.
Much better we have all the drama and theatre of Chelski v Mourhino, Cole to shackle Ronaldo and show what an excellent footballer he is.
Chelsea can still put out a decent midfield with Mata, Lampard, Essien and Malouda or even sturridge. They need one or other of Luiz or Cahill fit though. They were lucky last night that Barca arent really a threat in the air or indeed cross from wide that often. Be a different story against both Real and Bayern and they will need at least one genuine stopper out there.
Have to say though last night is why I love European football, brilliant.

I'd love to see Bayern in the final. I do agree that it's a shame it's at their place but that aside, i love the fact they play with proper wingers. Makes excellent watching a la United of the last 90s.

I'm not sure i could get through 90 minutes of Drogba and the Real players on the floor. If it is a Real - Chelsea final there is a very genuine chance that i won't bother watching it.

Real can play when they want to MPB, they are about the only side Ive seen have a go at Barca and outplay them for parts of a game. Admittedly they only do it when it suits them, but football is about having a few ways to play, with its becoming clear is one gift Barcelona dont have.
Anyway, Ive just checked the fixtures and I can get 9/2 on Villa going down with Ladbrokes, do you reckon it might be worth a punt ?

Absolute compulsive and absorbing viewing last night. I don't think I have seen such a miracle result since Germany 1 England 5!

Even Gary Neville got a bit excited for Chelsea, so fair play to him. Fair play to Ray as well for advising Di Matteo to abandon the league and put out a reserve side against QPR this weekend!

Davie wrote:Well Terry wont be playing so if we do see him crying it will be from the sidelines

I'm still shocked at his stupidity - like many others here including super, I don't have a lot of time for Terry off the field but that really did seem out of character for him. You can criticise him for his off-field antics and many can and will criticise him for his on-field ability (rightly or wrongly) - but he always shows utmost commitment and I don't recall him ever resorting to anything like that

It really was quite bizarre. The excuse that Terry gave that he was simply protecting himself as the Barca player backed into him was nothing short of laughable.

At least he did later apologise to the Chelsea fans and his team-mates, after seeing a TV replay, admitting that it was indeed a red card offence. Like him or not, there can be no doubt that he will be a big absence for Chelsea in the final.

diggers wrote:Real can play when they want to MPB, they are about the only side Ive seen have a go at Barca and outplay them for parts of a game. Admittedly they only do it when it suits them, but football is about having a few ways to play, with its becoming clear is one gift Barcelona dont have.
Anyway, Ive just checked the fixtures and I can get 9/2 on Villa going down with Ladbrokes, do you reckon it might be worth a punt ?

Real have some brilliant players and i'm sure they could be hugely entertaining if they wanted to be, but Mourinho's (successful) style is more about destroying and cheating than it is about playing and creating. You're absolutely right that there is more than one way to win, i just enjoy watching some ways more than others and Real's way is so far down the list i really don't want to watch it at all.

Re Villa, although they are 3 points clear of Bolton in 18th, Bolton have a game in hand, so it's very likely to be a 2 point gap clear of Bolton/Wigan/QPR before long. 3 games to play.
Villa have - West Brom, Spurs, Norwich
Wigan have - Newcastle, Blackburn, Wolves
Bolton have - Sunderland, Spurs, West Brom, Stoke
QPR have - Chelsea, Stoke, City

If Villa don't go down it might only be by virtue of the fact that QPR have a horrible run in.

If it were me i'd get some money on at 9/2. In fact i might!

MPB, I think it's a bit harsh to say that Madrid's style under Mourinho is all about cheating. Sure, if you watch their games against Barca they do adopt a negative style... but Mourinho is pragmatic enough to realise that trying to outpass the best passing side in the world is not going to result in many victories. Of course, he's not going to win many popularity contests with this approach.

I think Madrid have played some fantastic stuff this season. Ronaldo has scored 57 goals this season and 42 in the league. You need exciting creative players like Ozil, Kaka, Xabi Alonso to do that.

I think this Madrid team is seriously under-rated, because they have been in the shadow of the Barcelona juggernaut for the last few years.

I didn't say all about cheating Ray. Destroying and cheating! In equal measure would be my guess.
I've seen them play a few times this year. Ok they can go to Sporting Gijon and take them apart but they were negative v Barca, negative v Bayern. I suspect against anyone decent.

I'm not saying it's not successful and i'm not saying they don't have a right to play that way. I'm just saying i don't at all enjoy it and i wouldn't want to see a champions league final with them in it