Initial Handicap Assessment

Has anyone here ever been on a handicap committee or been h/c secretary of a club?

I'm just curious about how initial handicaps are assessed - I know most of the details but parts I'm a little unsure of.

A friend of mine has finally taken the plunge to get a handicap after years of playing - he's purely a social golfer and has never been interested in entering comps etc but for some reason decided he wanted something "official"

So I know you submit three cards; additionally at our place, one of them has to be under 100 and one has to be signed by a committee member. Then as I understand it, the BEST is taken (not the average), and a magical stableford adjustment is applied and compared against SSS.

Now this friend of mine submitted a 97 and a 98 (plus one other higher) - SSS is 70. But how is the stableford adjustment applied? Is it assuming a scratch handicap? or 18? Or something else arbitrary?

when he told me he'd submitted a best score of 97 I explained to him that on the face of it, that would translate to a 27 h/c but that he might get one or two less depending on stableford adjustment - in fact he was given a 24! So am I right that when there is no initial handicap, everything is reduced to a double GROSS bogey?

Davie - I think that's what I was told when I was putting in cards for my handicap, nothing higher than a double. Didn't really matter to me, as I knew I would start with a 36 handicap anyway.

That's right Davie, best card and all scores reduced to double bogey. Looks like your mate had a couple of triples in there. Remember its all part of the dark arts and no one's ever happy with what they get.

Thanks Mary and Grumps - that's what I thought but wasn't sure. It's interesting of course that once you HAVE a handicap, then the stableford reduction reduces you to NET double bogey - so for example we have a low index par 5 at our place where I get two shots - so an 8 still gets me a point! Stableford reductions would only go down to a 9 for me whereas the poor (or lucky) buggers putting in initial cards get them reduced to a 7!

Davie wrote:Thanks Mary and Grumps - that's what I thought but wasn't sure. It's interesting of course that once you HAVE a handicap, then the stableford reduction reduces you to NET double bogey - so for example we have a low index par 5 at our place where I get two shots - so an 8 still gets me a point! Stableford reductions would only go down to a 9 for me whereas the poor (or lucky) buggers putting in initial cards get them reduced to a 7!

It has to be that way - the only other option is to assume everyone's 28, and then it would never work because someone putting in a card with 10 double bogeys and 8 pars could end up playing off scratch.

Yes I see what you mean SJ and understand - no easy way around it I guess

It's 4 years since I got my own first h.c so can't remember what scores I submitted but TBH I'm a little surprised I wasn't given lower than I was given this realization that it is GROSS doubles that you get reduced to! Does explain one of my mates though who was given 3 less than I was when I was typically a couple of shots better than him on average!

What gets to me a bit is when people take a break from the game for a little while, let their handicap lapse, then stick three cards in for a 'new' handicap when they resume playing.

We have had two occurrences of this situation this year. A 12 handicapper returned after a 3 year absence and 'obtained' a handicap of 20 (and then went on to win this years singles knockout) and a 4 handicapper who returned after a 10 year break with a handicap of 12. They have both been cleaning up all season! It doesn't really bother me, I just think it is a bit sad on their part! What would be wrong with returning to the sport with the handicap that you previously held? If you can no longer play to that standard your handicap would increase until you reach your revised level!

BCM - I'm exactly in that same position. I stopped playing regularly more than 3 years ago and gave up my club membership (and therefore my handicap) due to my double hip replacement. I don't intend playing regularly or joining another club until I retire and move away from London in just under 4 years' time. I will then have to put in 3 cards to get a new handicap. I will play as well as I can when the time comes, but I suspect my handicap may be a bit higher but I'd be delighted if it wasn't!.

I think, in the two instances you quote, the bandits in question put in 3 rubbish cards in order to get an artificially high handicap. There's no way a 12 handicapper could lose his game so much in 3 years to be playing to a 20. When I played in Scotland recently, I was delighted to play on one occasion to my old handicap of 20 - and that's after more than 3 years away.

There will always be anomalies regarding handicapping, and I believe it got stranger when they changed the method of issuing handicaps based upon 3-cards. The old way was a simple aggregate of the 3 cards but using the best card means a lot of disillusionment if the best card was a stunner. 6-years ago I handed in my first 3 cards and fully expected a handicap of around 20, but was shocked to see 15.9 as they used my best card. I have never had a cut and have to play fantastic to stand still. So I hardly bother with medals at my place as I just slip back 0.1 every time. I'm officially 17.6 now and its just gone inactive. I know I can play a lot better than my handicap now due to lessons and plenty of practice , but because of the initial battering I was getting in the early days, finished up with a head problem in QC events.

I would advise any high handicapper thinking of getting an official rating, to make sure that the 3-cards are a proper reflection of your game. If you throw in a stunning round don't bother handing the card in.

Handicaps is a very emotive and subjective thing in this country as a handicap on one course may not reflect how you play elsewhere. You could have a handicap that allows you to clean up in opens etc, as your own course could be a tough test. You may also get battered elsewhere as you can't play anywhere near your handicap as your own course could be a simple track ....

I think our system needs beefing up along the lines of the US version, where slope is taken into account

I have to disagree with you LP. It is easy enough to lose your game in 3 years and get a handicap of 20. I did something similar when I moved to the US. I basically stopped playing for almost 2 years. I then joined a track that is pretty difficult and it took me a while to learn how to play it and also tighten my game up as any offline shot was penalised severely.

A 12 handicapper would have a reasonable short game but that's one of the first things to go when you take a break. They're also capable of hitting a couple sideways. The telling thing here is that they obviously can better that handicap but the cuts aren't following as quickly. I went from 11 to 20. I didn't stay at 20 for long, by the end of the season I was close to where I started. Maybe that's the difference between me and Blue's bandit. They're happy maintaining it but I was wanting to get it down as quickly as possible.

Yes clearly my suggestion would not be appropriate or reasonable in cases such as yours LP when people are returning to the game after an operation or injury. I guess there is never going to be a solution that will be satisfactory to all.

To be fair to the previously 12 handicapper he has been uncomfortable and slightly embarrassed by the whole thing. He has managed to reduce by 2 and is now off 18. The previously 4 handicapper is more unperturbed insisting that after 10 years its almost like starting again and he can't hit it straight now. He has just reduced to 11 though.

Doc wrote:I would advise any high handicapper thinking of getting an official rating, to make sure that the 3-cards are a proper reflection of your game. If you throw in a stunning round don't bother handing the card in.

Not sure that I can agree with you there Doc. I always thought that your handicap should be what you shoot when you play at your absolute best not what you usually score. And if you play to your handicap more than 4 times a year then it is too high...

I do agree with you about the US version where slope is taken into account though. I play off 5 on a flat Essex course which has minimal trees and was previously farmland. I go to other courses sometimes and think Christ I would struggle to play to 10 if I was a member here...

Some sort of slope adjustment in this country would certainly be good (though not necessarily for me!)

Before I joined my club 4 years ago I played a variety of public courses in the area, all relatively benign, and though I only had a self-estimated handicap I generally played to around 18

After 4 years at my club, I start at 22 and have pretty much stayed there (down to 21 and up to 23 at worst) despite playing plenty of qualifiers and not through lack of trying to get down - yet I'm convinced I'm a better golfer now than I was 4 years ago.

The handicap does travel very well though - I've played a couple of social club matches at away courses (social as in not scratch league or anything though still quite competitive) - and usually done pretty well! I haven't gone back to many of my old haunts but I'm pretty sure I'd murder them now off 22!

I think we need a best of both worlds compromise.

The slope factor of the US version is great. It basically allows for you to go to any other course and have your handicap adjusted based on the relative ease or difficulty of the new venue.

The rest of the US system allows for lots of fluctuation as it's based on 10 best scores out of the last 20. This means you could increase by a stroke if a good round gets dropped and a mediocre round replaces it. I think the UK system of incremental cuts and 0.1 back for a bad round would probably be fairer.

I know where Doc is coming from, I did something similar when I got my first handicap. I ended up with one a couple of shots lower than my personal best and it took me almost a year to play close to it.

We definitely need a slope system in the UK. It's not just in the US, all the courses in Spain, Portugal, Sweden, Holland use the system too. Why do we always have to try and do everything differently here?

Based on what Grumpy says, the US handicap system must create fluctuating handicaps if you are an inconsistent player. Say I have a shocker one day, I am easily capable of having a great round next time out. 0.1 move sounds more sensible than 1.0!!!

the number of times i play with a '24' handicapper in a bounce game and they shoot something like 14 over, but claim "i just can't do it with a card in my hand" - it is a bit pathetic. man up and work on your consistency like everyone else has to do to maintain their optimum handicap. i really think 18 is a more sensible max handicap for men. 28 is just taking the piss.

I'd love to be able to Scarpa - as someone who is half way between your two examples - though my best round is something like +18

I've played just about every weekend qualifier open to me in the last 3-4 years - and some midweek ones also so I'd say it must be a fair reflection of my ability. My absolute best rounds (medal or stableford) only seem to be 3 or 4 under handicap, not 10 under as you suggest - but in fairness I do know soe people who fit your description!