Lessons Or Do Your Own Thing

I'm a player who picked up the game and never had a lesson, and got my h/c down to 16, which has gradually gone backwards to 18 at present. On the 'club fitting' post I mentioned that I was back with my fitter on Thursday, as I was having trouble with my 3-wood and hybrids. A very imformative session was had on TrackMan, and also a teaching pro who was there. My fitter had arranged for the pro as part of the service to me FOC.

The pro had interfaced his own software to Trackman, so that on top of the data from TrackMan another laptop and video session was running. After hitting 8 x 6-irons the pro had me look at the results, and said: 'I bet you can go out and score very low at times, but also would like to bet that you have some nightmare's as well'. very true especially recently. He then tried to explain my problems in simple to understand terms and compared my swing in slow motion footage from side on and from the rear, and on the other screen had Luke Donald footage from the same views. He used Luke's swing because it's the nearest set up to my own (But only at midway takeaway) It then shows very clearly where I go wrong. In simple terms my downswing goes out to in, so that what should be an ark going towards the target, actually aims well left. All the gadgets that Dennis Pugh uses on Sky was used to assist.

We had a half hour session where I was given a different grip, ball position and this new tight swing routine. The immediate result gave me an extra 20mph, a much better angle of attack, less ball spin, but balls were flying all over the property. I now need to decide if I should do a few sessions with this pro, which will mean completley stripping down my game and starting again. I know LJ and a couple of others have rebuilt their swing recently, so needing some advice. When I got home last night my man boobs, left thigh and right wrist all had the 'burn', because I'm obviously using a few different muscle sets.

I have a 4-ball booked for Sunday, so will go and do some practice on Saturday with the new swing and see how it goes. Do I carry on with it though Sunday and maybe lose a few quid and give my partners some laughs?

Do I carry on with it though Sunday

This for me is the single key element of the above post.

If these changes are designed to improve your consistency long term and your committed to improve then regardless of what games are coming up or how bad things may get in the short term for the long term gains then you should stick with it.

In my experience people that only implement changes in practice but refer to their usual action in play never improve because you never groove the changes and are paying out to a pro for game improvement for no reason as unless your prepared to bite the bullet and be prepared to go down the long road then there's no point trying to improve.

So if your happy as you are go it your own way, if your committed to improve and could feel the changes then whole heartedly give it 100percent.

Mav - i would agree... i remember having a radical swing change about 15 years ago. It was very painful as I had an inherent fault.

I got to the point after a couple of months when I was still not getting tyne new swing and thought i'd change back - I couldn't, i was somewhere in between - so I persevered with the new swing and ...... it was the right thing to do.

I took around 4-6 months to get to the point that the new swing was ingrained and natural.

STICK WITH IT Doc

Cheers guys, I really think its something I'm going to have to do because in the real world, I'm only going to go backwards as I get older. The self designed swing I've had all these years, is like an old boys swing in reality, and even after the change of grip yesterday, I was hitting it 20-yards further. I had my driver shaft changed a few months ago (Old driver) as my swing speed had dropped by 5mph over the last 3-years, so I know we all deteriorate with age etc. This isn't going to be easy, or pretty, but looks like its got to be done or I'll finish up with something that looks like Oldshankers swing

Hope an old dog can be taught new tricks.

To give youself a fair chance you really have to write off next season as far as competitions and results go.
Stick firmly to the new swing and have regular check ups, at least once a month.

The problem with playing competitively AND changing a swing is that whenever things start going badly you will revert back to your old swing.

Good luck.

Agree wholeheartedly with Doons comments the one thing about a major swing change is to play less QC's otherwise you'll be too tempted to revert to bad habits

Doc

I pretty much agree with all that has been said above. I went down the rebuild route 2 years ago, mainly to get rid of a flying elbow and a big over the top movement. My shot was a big cut on everything so I would aim left to compensate. Sometimes though the hands would come through a bit quicker and square the blade up sooner causing a low pull hook. Not good when you are already aiming left!

It took me 18 months of constant playing and range sessions to get to a stage where I no longer have to think about keeping my elbow tucked in although I do constantly check to see what I'm doing.

Your dilemna is basically this:

1) Do you want to improve your swing and make a serious effort to lower your handicap

or

2) Play purely for the enjoyment of the game and the comaraderie it provides.

Once you have made that decision, your option should be clear. Either work hard to rebuild your swing and forget about winning anything this year or carry on as is, relax and enjoy what you already have.

Good luck

D4S as with everything in life, being a selfish greedy git .... I want it all!!!

So will get up to the club in the morning for a couple of hours, and try the new wonderswing. I'll play the 4-ball Sunday, but it's only a bounce game, but will effect my winter eclectic So looks like I'll be not winning trophys for a while.

Can't believe how hard it is to keep my arms tight to my body on my backswing, then come down on the same plane - it smarts a bit. It isn't natural to me and it feels pug ugly, but looking at it on video, it looks brilliant and maybe Poulter should take a look at my new swing and copy it

Always done my own thing - and down to 13 now.

Not sure I can stomach the thought of breaking it apart and starting again, althouhg, that said, I suspect it's only a matter of a few tweaks and then I'd reach my talent limit anyway.

Think I'd be happy enough getting to, and sticking at 10 or 11.

Doc

As I'm sure you are already aware, you will go a long way backwards before you see any progress. But stick with it, this time next year you will be gearing up for a a fresh season where you will reap big rewards!

God only knows how but I actually managed to come down a shot whilst I was rebuilding. If I can sort out my short game woes I'll be entering the Senior Amateur in a couple of years time

Doc,

There might be a third way. The New Labour option if you like.

This was my approach when playing off a low handicap. Might be worth condiering.

Everyone's swings are different. You like most of us will have several faults. Some will be your body making corrections for a fundamental fault.

Ask you pros to pick your worst fault or the fault that produces the most bad shots. Get the pro to give you one thing to work on - hopefully a fandamental fault. This might be a change in grip, alignment or swing plane.

As you make this single change let your body make other corrections based on what feels right to hit good shots. Probably some of the other "secondary faults" will improve as your body changes other parts of your swing as a direct consequence of improving the fundamental fault.

In a few months go back to the pro and check you have made the change. You may well only go half way or even too much. Once corrected get the pro to give you a second change to work on and so on.

This might be a way of making real progress but having a game you can play with. It will slow the process down but you might get better results as trying to change too much at the same time is almost impossible as your consious mind can only properly deal with one swing thought at a time.

Thanks Scottie, I'll see how i get on on the practice area in the morning. I've been doing a bit of swing practice in my office (When nobody can see) I have to say that its bloody hard work using muscles that are used to working one way and being told to do something else. 4 swings and i'm sweating up like Bella

Echo all most everyone's view on here. Took up the game seriously in 2001. Got down to 12 with no lessons. Thought it was easy. Then started to go backwards in 2004 rapidly, so much so that my mate (11 handicap, played for 20 years with no lessons) could hit his wedge further than my driver. Decided there and then, either to get lessons or buy a snooker cue! Had about 6 to 8 lessons over a period of 6 months. Total rebuild, but mainly strengthening my grip. Felt totally alien for weeks and thought I would never be able to move forward. I stuck with it, after about a month I started to see a couple of good shots. Took me over a year to become comfortable and to see my handicap move downwards again.

Here I am 8 years later hovering around 5 or 6 handicap and loving the game more tha ever.

Oh yeh, my mate has still never had a lesson and still to this day has never been single figures. It makes him spit every time I remind him about how he could hit his wedge past my driver when I keep putting his money in my pocket from our bounce games! SWEET WORK!

Doc wrote: but looks like its got to be done or I'll finish up with something that looks like Oldshankers swing

OI DOC NO!!

Bloody cheek, hmmph. I don't know, you show someone a thing of beauty and the green eyed demon takes over.

At least the clubhead on my backswing gets a little bit above 8 o'clock!

Stick with the new Doc - I've seen your old.

By the way, I and a couple of mates might be passing by in May on our way to Scotland. Thought we might drop in at your gaff, if we do, fancy making up a fourball?

Shanker, would be great to make up a 4-ball in May, just give me a shout when you have a date.

Right, back to the new swing and set-up. Really, really worried about it and was practicing the swing anytime i was on my own. The weather was a nightmare on Saturday so went to the local range, to give it a try. Took only a 56* wedge, 24* hybrid and my 7-iron and Mrs Doc also came so she could laugh at me. I was hitting into a 4 club wind, but I had the horn after my first 4 balls went true, straight and long, which wiped the smile of her face. I think that the majority of the hits with the 3 clubs was brilliant, and yes there were a few that were good hits but flew left or right, and of course a couple of fat or topped hits. But overall I was loving it and even into that wind knew i was hitting cleaner and longer.

Sunday morning was round 5 of the eclectic and my 3 playing partners knew of the changes, and promised not to take the piss .. too much. I knew this round would be completley different than the range and so it proved. I walked off with only just breaking 100, but was pleased, in fact very pleased. I managed 5 pars because on these holes I actually hit 2 consecutive shots correctly. I had an 8 and a couple of 7's, but on the whole i think I hit at least one really good shot on each hole. Yes some went left or right, but I also hit some stunners.

One of the problems i've now got is sorting out again, how far I hit each club, as i sailed over 3 greens with wedges. Always had a decent short game, but trying to shorten a new swing (When repetition is the goal) is difficult.

Lesson booked for Wednesday lunch

this is something ive been thinking about quite a bit recently.
My conclusion is that I really dont think there is much that i can learn from a pro until he knows my game almost as well as i do. spending 20minutes looking at me on the range probably doesnt show much.

one of the teams I'm on which gets going on in early may had our first (ridiculously early in the season??) meet up on saturday morning with the resident pro and he watched us whacking balls for a couple of hours.
maybe im the exception in this but in general i like to move the ball both ways depending on how the hole is set up and suits my eye. he watched me hit about 10 7-iron fades and commented on how i was a little steep on the takeaway. then about 20mins later i was hitting a couple of draws and he commented on how i was a bit too flat. He really didnt seem to get that i wasnt trying to hit the ball dead straight.
What are people thoughts?
I agree that if you find the right guy and get him to follow you around for round upon round it will help! but for a realistic investment amount then i dont think there is much to be gained.
any thoughts?

Performing a rebuild is not something to be taken lightly.

I am a year in and it's still nowhere near right. That said my practice time is very limited. It's only just starting to kick in with the shorter irons but my long irons and driver are still very very poor by my own standards.

Expect to have to put in a lot of work and for it to get a lot worse before there is any improvement in the numbers.

Also... expect your ball striking to go more or less completely missing for a long time.

I once go told improving your swing in like crossing the a river. There may be some stepping stones but there will be times you will fall in and get wet or even get washed away.

I've just paid for seven 30 minute lessons with the club pro. My intention is to see him once a month as a check-up that I'm starting/continuing to do right things.

I'm finally practising what I preach and that is to see your Pro once a month whether you feel you need to or not.

I can't recall ever having a lesson that wasn't worthwhile in some way.

to be honest LJ i dont think im ready to committ to any drastic changes.... A few tweaks here and there though im all for.
for example i think my the main thing that is unorthodox in my swing is the bottom hand of my grip being too open. I think this is a bigger overhall than im willing make though. I'm not really willing to sacrifice the whole season.

a grip change is always a minor thing. But a minor thing with major implications.

Changing your hand position will affect the release, the impact azimuth of the clubface, your wrist action, potentially the swing path and plane, and the shape of the shot downrange.

Be careful if you take that one minor step... it might lead to more than you realise! Then again it might fix everything...

London,

I totally agree. Trying to remodel a whole swing is not feasible for most (me included - too many ingrained bad habits). Getting the fundamentals correct is the starting point - alignment, posture, grip and ball position are the main points. You need a pro to check these out because our perception is often wrong.

A lot of other faults will be a direct consequence of wrong fundamentals.

My main problem last year was aiming right of the target and then coming over the top to hit the ball straight (actually, I think swinging over the top came first and the aiming right was the correction). I thought this would be an easy fix but when I used the sticks to get the alignment right I had to change a load of things with the start of the downswing to prevent the ball going straight left.

I actually enjoy trying to fix things on the range most of the time. It's a bit like those puzzles you get at Xmas.

Regular lessons with the pro can only be a good thing, probably a necessity for most, provided you and he (or she I guess) are on the same page and you trust and understand what he is telling you.

i think my view my be slightly tainted by my dislike for our pro..... thoroughly obnoxious character!

For me there are 5 key things that need to be adhered to when making a swing change or rebuild.

1. Commit 100% to the changes and accept when things look bleak that the long term goal outweighs the short term loss of form which inevitably will happen

2. Take time to research the pro and his/her ethos before working with them. By this I mean look into what type of swing method he teaches, many have a set thought on how to swing and imo this is not always a good thing as were all different in shape, size and suppleness and what's good for one is not always good for another.

3. Before swinging away and showing the pro what your action is like, take the time to explain your goals to him/her and what you want to achieve.

4. Once shown the changes required do not attempt to make your own further changes to their teachings just because what you do feels more comfortable, remember your not the pro and you've put yourself in their hands to improve you so trust them in what they do and follow their instructions intently.

5. Remember its a game and yes your trying to improve but most of all remembering this is purely a game nothing more will enable you to relax and develop at the required natural rate of the changes being implemented. Otherwise you will rush, get sloppy and end up with more bad habits than you started with.

I'm currently going through a grip change, I've got sloppy and allowed my left hand to become a little too strong which in turn has altered my swing plane. So am at the moment working on getting the hands more neutral on the club at address which will help to set the club better at the top. It feels strange but a couple of hundred balls a week on the range will hopefully have me ready for the playing season, and if not then I'm prepared for however long it takes

Mav, I'm fully commiting to this simply because I can see a marked difference, even at this early stage. One range session and one round only so far after one lesson, but the balls I'm hitting well are some of the best I've ever done. Maybe it feels that way because of the distance I'm hitting, compared to what I was getting with my half spaz swing. Yes uncomfortable, strange, tiring but I think it's going to be well worth it in the end.

In the conditions we played in on Sunday, I could have been carding a 99 with the old set-up, so getting 99 with a new grip, set-up and swing first time out is pretty good. I had a 7 on a par 3 ffs a couple more 7's thrown in and an 8 on a par 4. I don't expect that to happen again, so taking those out would have been around my handicap, so really looking forward to carrying on with this. lesson 2 tomoz, so will see what he thinks.

2nd lesson just just completed, and feeling a bit deflated really. The pro however is very happy and wanted to concentrate on posture and the new grip. He was also wanting me to hinge my right wrist on takeaway rather than the end of my backswing. Didn't connect cleanly with one shot as I seemed to top it mostly. The pro however said that the difference between a slightly topped shot and a great shot is milimeters, and wasn't bothered at this stage. he said my topped shots were getting the same distance as my previous 'good shots', so progress. He's confident that after my next lesson I will be striking the ball cleanly again, with more distance. He's confident that my handicap will be cut this year, so thats the aim folks.

I'll bore you again after the next lesson

So I'm now booked into the 7-lesson package, to ensure everything sticks. Drivers, woods, hybrids and long irons, mid-irons and short game, plus a round with him for tips and course management.

i hit 5 shanks in a row with my "new and improved" setup Doc so a top doesnt sound all that bad!

I had the first of my 7 lessons this afternoon and I don't think I going to need the rest!

The only change the Pro made was to make my left hand stronger (my left thumb had been going straight down the shaft). I knew straight away that it was right because it was the same grip feeling I had when I was playing well last year.

My ball striking after the change was excellent. I'm absolutely buzzing and even more convinced that everyone should regularly see a Pro (a good one, obviously!).

Played round 6 of the winter eclectic Saturday and managed to knock 10 shots of the previous round. (Thats not 10 improvement holes by the way) Front 9 I was really getting the new technique but without power/distance, and fell back into bits of my old swing on the back 9. I had a few minutes with the pro straight after the round, where he quickly sorted out what I had done wrong. This is tough and the hardest part seems to be getting everything right on the tee, and it seems to be taking me ages to get set. Luckily my playing partners are understanding, as I mess around getting the new grip, then messing with ball and body position ...... It seems that I'm not arching my back enough which hampers my back swing by not allowing me enough rotation to give me the power.

Sunday saw me have a great round in very soggy conditions, but shot an 83 with plenty of clean strikes and some irons that put me within 6-feet of the stick on 4 occasions, only to miss birdy every time. But overall was a great start, although its only when everything comes together that I get some serious distance (For me) Grip, ball position, the stance, hinge the right wrist on takeaway, full rotation and an on-line downswing with nice follow through. Simple isn't it .... err no, but seems to be getting there.

Lesson number 3 with him Wednesday lunchtime, still with 5 and 7-irons, just to carry on with the drills so that it starts become the norm. Repetition seems to be the order of the day, but I'm hoping that before the decent weather kicks in, I'll have completed the course of 7 lessons and be playing some consistent stuff. Looking forward to him sorting my woods/hybrids out and then the fun of the short game, because I'm trying to repeat my swing with my wedges etc, but realise I need something like my old swing for this. My poor brain gets confused from inside 80-yards at present. Over 80-yards I can utilise the new swing to good effect, but trying to shorten the swing .....

So I'll carry on with this boring diary of lessons then that nobody's interested in
Lesson No3 completed with much praise from the pro', which was nice. Started the session off with the set-up routine and grip again, but pleased to say that it's now coming much quicker. The new body set-up is giving me the extra rotation that has been lacking, and he filmed me doing a couple of practice swings, and then we looked and compared to the same swing on lesson 2. A marked difference and he was pleased. I then hit half dozen 7-irons, with a modicum of sucess as they went straight and had a good trajectory. he then wanted me to try and hit a bit faster, and the results were pretty good. A couple of thinnish hits, but the rest were clean and getting some good distance. He then had me doing a pre shot routine, which I'd never used before, but took it on board. He showed me where I would have aimed if I hadn't used the drill, and he was right. There would be some with the leading edge facing to the target, but the body set up for aiming left or viceversa, so that was a good tip. Finished off with the pre shot drill before each of the last half dozen hits. Lesson 4 not booked yet, but it's going to be the short game. I know you can't wait for the next installment, but 4 will not be until the week after next

Nice one Doc, I see this is all practice for the next eclectic. I'll be checking the handicap very carefully for the next time.

1GrumpyGolfer wrote:Nice one Doc, I see this is all practice for the next eclectic. I'll be checking the handicap very carefully for the next time.

Playing round 7 on Saturday grumps, did you get my last 2 cards ok?

I did Doc, I have had trouble getting my email through to my actual worksite recently since they upgraded to windows 7 so apologies for not responding to you. I have been forwarding email to deal with it which has been a pain in the backside. I have been keeping up with your progress and thought it was easier to respond via this than on blackberry.

Doon the Water wrote:To give youself a fair chance you really have to write off next season as far as competitions and results go.
Stick firmly to the new swing and have regular check ups, at least once a month.

The problem with playing competitively AND changing a swing is that whenever things start going badly you will revert back to your old swing.

Good luck.

Couldn't agree more Doon, I say that now but I would have shuddered at the thought this time last year. 2011 was effectively my "write off" season and it wasn't until more than half way through it that I came to accept the length of time the changes made over the winter were taking to bed in. Yes I had good days but I also had more than my fair share of shockers. I ended up taking a 2 week break in the middle of the summer to actually stop me getting to the point where I wanted to give the game up. I'm glad I eventually worked through it and I can at last begin to feel the difference. Golf being golf I know I can still have a shocker out of the blue but I feel I know where I'm going and I'm making progress now. To be fair to my Pro he has said repeatedly... the more I play (competitively) before the changes are properly bedded in, the longer it will take.

So...stick with it Doc, it could be a long road but it will pay dividends eventually!!

Lesson No4

Started off with the 7-iron again so he could see my progress, and nailed it which I thought was good. He then gave me a bollocking for not rotating enough and told me to go again, which I did and the result was stunning. So obviously slipping back into old practices without knowing. He had me hit a few more 7-irons and said 'job done, nothing else to do with the swing now, you just need to take it out on course, AND MAKE SURE YOU ROTATE.

The lesson today was the short game. He asked me to chip from off the green to the fringe on the other side. He watched me hit 3 shots with my 56* degree with varying results. He then went on to explain that from looking at me I should use a wedge from between 5 and 10 yards from the target, a 7-iron from 10 to 20 yards and a 5-iron from 30 to 40 yards out. He then showed me the technique with hands, hinged wrist and the amount of backswing/follow through. I picked it up fairly quickly and saw some good results. He said a lot of top pro's will do it different, but he gets best results from the way he showed me. He said he didn't want to talk about passive wrists as that can cause thins. So keeping it simple with a 7-iron on a flat surface 50/50 carry roll, by having the feet 10 inch apart and the ball near the back foot. Pick your line and landing area, takeaway with hinged wrists to knee height and hit the ball with a follow through to knee height again. Actaully worked great. Same technique for longer chips but with a 5-iron. We then did some work with my 52* wedge from 10-yards out over rough/bunker etc with the same technique but a backswing to mid-way between knee and shoulder, but bending the elbow and hitting the ball cleanly with a decent follow through and chest turned towards target. This has always been a problem shot for me as I tend to think the swing is too much and hey presto come up short. After a bit of practice I actually got it working and got 50/50 air and roll-out but ball stopping quickly as it bites from big air.

Next installment in a fortnight folks, so sorry you'll have to wait to learn about short irons from 100 yards and in.

Thanks for the update Doc. Have enjoyed reading your lessons progress.