Queenwood Golf Club - Updated with course review

This place is so bloody exclusive even the guests need a password to access the website.

Don't know a great deal about it to be honest, apart from its been recently ranked in the top 100 in UK, also that it was part of last years Tavistock cup and boasts members with the likes of Darren Clarke, Adam Scott and a few others (but I'd guess these guys have memberships they don't even know about).

Anyways, I've been lucky enough to be offered an invite to play there on Tuesday 27th March, by virtue of an american client having membership and offering to entertain me for the day. I'd say he has more money than sense because I can't even find how much this place costs, but obviously I'm taking the chance with both hands.

Just got me wondering are these closed shop course of such what must be extorniate membership fees good for the game. Golf is often thought of as far too exlcusive and these places are breeding that. But then with Golf we have the luxury to be able to play the courses all the top players do, what other sport can you play the same venue as top players!

Wonder if they'll let me bag a few snaps!!!

Wow it must be exclusive - it's not THAT far away from me and I've never even heard of it!

Davie wrote:Wow it must be exclusive - it's not THAT far away from me and I've never even heard of it!

I'd only heard of it after watching last years Tavistock cup!

Been doing a bit of t'internet digging since popping this thread up. Definitely a no go to access their site even as a guest without a password! Found another site that reviwed it and from what I've read:
- when they opened up it was done on the quiet as not to attract the wrong sort (quite what sort that is who knows)
-website as I said definietly not accessible apparentely to add to the mystique
-Joining fee in region of 147k!! WTF really, no course is worth a 20th of that in joining fees imo.
-you have to be invited to become a member you cannot apply to be.
-guest of members only allowed to play at the committees discretion!

Sounds a bit to pompous and trying to be uk's version of ANGC, that's all I could really find out, but means I'd better cover the tattoos up and for one day only be well behaved! Part of me is thinking I don't even want to play it now based on the snottiness but I'm going to simply to see if its "all that"......

Look forward to reading your report Mav - too good an opportunity to turn down.

I believe that David Howell is also a member there (not sure if that's still the case now he is based in Dubai), but keep your eyes peeled just in case!

Looking forward to hearing about it Mav! Hope you'll have your "why always me" Ballotelli tee shirt with you when things go tits-up

I know Louise paid £120k for Jamie Redknapp's membership there.

I've driven past it on the way to Wentworth. If I recall correctly, it's over the road from Foxhills.

[quote="Mercurio"]I know Louise paid £120k for Jamie Redknapp's membership there.
quote]

One very good reason to avoid, I would have thought

It is indeed across the road from Foxhills. If you look on google maps you can see the front entrance from street level.

Obviously I've never played it but heard varying reports about it. Some people rave about it but to be honest I suspect they are people that haven't played a wide range of top courses. Others say it's nothing special as a layout but the conditioning of the course and practice area is tour standard which is why it attracts a lot of top pros.

Either way, have a great day out and enjoy the experience!

I'm going into this with an open mind simply because any course that is asking for those type of fees imo is likely to be hugely overrated.

From what I've been reading its a heathland type layout (though that maybe wrong as all I can get is info from unofficial sources)

Also being a new course I can't see how it can be right up there as heathland will take some time to bed in. I've played Foxhills right opposite (some years ago mind) and Wentworth and Sunningdale so I'll have some good options to compare against.

Just see how we go, can see it being an all to formal days golf.

I've heard that Darren Clarke phones ahead when he's en route, and they have a latte ready for him to pick up as he drives through the gates! You could give that a try Mav.

Very much looking forward to having the mystique of this course unravelled by our man of the people.

Not played there but know someone who has. It's not formal or stuffy at all. Apparently quite relaxed like the grove. It's just incredibly exclusive. Have heard that Hugh Grant and Tim henman are members . The idea i guess is that it is somewhere all these pros and celebs can go and play with each other without being disturbed by the riff raff like you and me.

no doubt once they're aware of this thread and your pending review they'll not let you through the gates anyway

Maybe that's the thing, you have to pay a fortune to have a relaxed environment as opposed to a reasonable amount and have a club full of pseudo snobs.

I played this place last year in a mixed open http://www.vra.co.uk/ absolutley loved it, and as its not too far away had a think about the membership. It turns out that the reason its hardly played is because its a captive audience and no visitors allowed. They've built some huge houses around it and each house comes with membership. You can apply for membership but need a proposer and seconder - so no chance unless you know someone. £1,200 per year and another £1,200 joining fee - shoveitupyourarse

It is a fantastic, well looked after course, but silly money and no way is even close to the price Mav's mentioned for the other spot.

I'm afraid that even in today's enlightened society, there's still people who will pay stupid cash, just so they can have some bragging rights and get exclusivity

Doc interesting you should say its only £1200 a year as all the gumf I've come across on t'interweb clearly says joing fee in region of 147k! And as Merc points out Redknapp paid 120k!

I also think the fact Queenwood gets access to the Tavistock would put it in the realms of those clubs involved of extornionate fees because let's be honest 1200quid a year for membership isn't that bad.

Problem I find is because you cannot access the actual club website the fees will always be of chinese whisper variety

Check this link out gives a bit more detail about the club that supposedly only has 350 members and if that's the case I'd expect annual membership to be wll 1200quid a year just to maintain the place and for appearance of exclusivety

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2005/may/11/golf?cat=sport&type=article

Mac- I think Doc is talking about Vale Royal Abbey Golf Club (according to the link he gave) and comparing that to Queenwood

Fees for Vale Royal Abbey Golf Club are £1200 which I agree sound very reasonable compared to what we pay down here

Vale Royal, as i said earlier is a bit exclusive and yes £1,200 is decent in some respects. But another £1,200 joining fee in the present climate keeps them exclusive as its the only club in my area who still have joining fees in place. Its still a bit of a closed shop though, as you need to know 2 existing members. Even Mere golf and country club resort allows visitors so not exclusive anymore.

As for Queenwood and those crazy prices, its beyond a joke and would net them over £51m per year in membership alone. Obviously there are plenty of idiots down there who want to pay it though, and for someone playing only 50 times per year it would work out at £2,940 per round. Many of those members will only play a dozen times so a very reasonable £12,250 per round .........

I would pay the going rate for a once in a lifetime treat, to play Augusta, and thats only a couple of grand, so no way would I even think about Queenwood or anywhere like it.

Theres a great course opened near newcastle called Close House, and they've spent a fortune building it and have Lee Westwood and a few more pro's endorsing it. membership is less than a grand, so do we still have a north south divide where golf membership's concerned?

Doc apologies for getting my cock in a knot and not reading your previous post correctly.

I totally agree about the prices of courses like Queenwood and such like. I wouldn't pay to play it and am only going for the freebie to see why they think its worth it.

Have heard good things about Close House from a few friends up north, Westwood has the logo emblazoned across his cap if I remember rightly, would like to get up there and play it if I can before family Mav depart across the Atlantic in July.

Mav £1,500 for membership and no joining fee. Close House is the most exclusive set up in the north, but decent money.

http://www.closehouse.co.uk/golf/membership/membership-tariffs/

No airs and graces and probably well worth it and there's 2 courses. Yes there will be issues with the cor[porate stuff and hotel guest stuff, but having 2 tracks takes a lot of that pain away. I'll be having a knock around there this year and will take them up on one of there hotel and golf deals, which is well cheap.

As a serous question, would it be a good business proposition to snap up one of the many golf clubs that are going broke and on the market. Buying it cheap, and then investing in the infrastructure etc and making it an exclusive members only affair. Massive joining fee and membership fees, and booting out the old membership. Because if Queenwood can do it ...... there must be a market for exclusive, members only golf clubs?

Will have a look at that link when I get home rather than squinting at my gayberry screen. One thing I will do though is look at the overnight deals could be a good idea for a weekend break and play both courses perhaps.

Regards your question about is it a good idea?

Several factors to consider really.

1. What is the current condition of the course and facilites (will they need much work)
2. What are the current facilites, (does it have a covered range, a grass range, putting green, seperate short game area and seperate area for teaching)
3. Where is it? (Is it in a nice suburb with pricey housing around the area, or is it out in the country, or near the local chav estate)
4. How much is it going for and how much investment is needed?
5. How long would it take to get into the position of being exclusive enough to bring in big bucks?

In theory its not a bad idea as a long term business strategy, the issues though will all revolve around how much you will have to invest before you break even then staryt turning a profit.

You'd have to buy it as a going concern and start making the changes to the course and infrastructure with the current membership in place to continue to generate revenue as the changes take place, maybe increasing fees as the place gets better to start to make more money and start losing a few current members.

Once you have it how you want it you'd then need to relaunch it as a new brand, new name, new head pro most likely to, someone that is well experienced at finer clubs and how they run, with a director of golf to. Could even hold an innaugrual open inviting big names along with the incentive of first prize being honourary life membership and 2nd and 3rd a years membership. This will give people a tatser for it and entice more to come along

Unless of course your a mutli millionaire and can afford toclose the club for as long as it takes to get it how you want before relaunch.

Either way you'd have some seriously pissed off former members!

Seems crazy though doesn't it, but it obviously works for Queenwood, but guess bigger brains than mine have thought about it before and decided against. Still it makes you wonder

I think there's definitely money to be made from golf course ownership, but more likely from the other end of the scale to that of Queenwood.

Companies like mytimegolf are doing some good profit turning, what they've done is snap up local Muni's and put some investment into the courses to improve them then marketing them to be played at some very affordable prices which brings in money, as they can offer a membership option and continue to be municiple so they get 2 strands of revenue and they are very good at picking ones with good trnasport routes, near to motorways. If memory serves me they actually snapped up another one this week.

There's a muni about 20mins from where I live that a friend of mine is the assistant pro at, that I've often thought would be the ideal investment for a private owner, as they have a gym, full covered range, and currently building a par 3 course, as well as having a well maintained and challenging main course. Its council owned and they know they have a real gem as they get a lot of members to the course paying their fees and their dd for unlimited golf plus having a high number of visitors and have in the last 10 years started an open competition that you have to qualify for so a good earner that place. That's the type of course I think the monies in for future investors as more people become golfing nomads over private members

Doc wrote:Mav £1,500 for membership and no joining fee. Close House is the most exclusive set up in the north, but decent money.

I thought Rockliffe Park was more than that.

Doc wrote:

As for Queenwood and those crazy prices, its beyond a joke and would net them over £51m per year in membership alone. Obviously there are plenty of idiots down there who want to pay it though, and for someone playing only 50 times per year it would work out at £2,940 per round. Many of those members will only play a dozen times so a very reasonable £12,250 per round .........

Doc - £145k is the joining fee, I'm sure annual membership is probably only a couple of grand. I know some people have more money than sense but I wouldn't expect them to cough up that much, they're not all stupid.

I would expect the £145k joining fee is based on some sort of debenture scheme or equity / bond scheme, which you get back if you leave the club (and sell to the next joiner).

I've just had my statement arrived today for the fees for next year

£1900 for 7 day membership

Seems like the North/South divide is getting bigger! At least they've introduced a 0% direct debit scheme which is better than the 5% offer last year. Softens the pain just a little

How much is the increase Davie if you don't mind me asking and is it the 12month DD or as some clubs do it over 10! Also are there any add ons in that like county fees, liability cover and bar costs!

£1900 a year though it does highlight the huge gulf in terms of location in this country. As Doc mentions the fees for the highly lauded new build close house are nearly half that for 2 courses!

Always a bug bear for me was the fact my club charged 7% on top for DD payments, but have let my membership lapse as were full steam ahead with the move, so have paid a nominal fee of 85quid for membership to the local muni to be able to keep my handicap active and play Open comps prior to moving but I know my club were increasing to 1300quid this year which imo was over priced as there is a good championship course down the road for a hundred quid a year less

That's just the green fees Mav. Bar tariff etc is on top of that. The DD is over 12 months with an admin fee of 30 quid

So I assuming that's just your Subs, then county affiliation + bar tariff and the liability cover that most clubs charge a nominal fee for on top would have your annual subscription at around 2k for the year including the admin fee which equates to £166per month DD.

Ou t of interest what is your home course. 2k a year imo for a membership is too much especially when there are some real hidden gems for far less even down here south of the m25!

Mav - only the fees are on DD - the rest is paid separately (and I don't think of the bar tariff as anything to do with the fees - I'd be spending that money over a bar somewhere else anyway if I wasn't a member there)

The DD will work out about £145 a month

I kind of agree with you that it's too much - I always said I'd never spend that much on a membership but I like the club so much (not just the course but the atmosphere etc) that while I can continue to afford it, I will

The course is Sand Martins Golf Club in Wokingham - just a couple of miles from East Berks and Bearwood Lakes - and is itself considered a bit of a hidden gem (though with the fees rise it is in danger of losing that status at least in terms for value for money).

Sorry - I've just read the letter again and realized I was a little confused. The DD is for the fees only (the extras being paid up front) but the figure I quoted of £1900 is inclusive of the extras. So I guess the actual green fee component is around £1700 (over 12 months).

Sounds fair enough Davie the one thing money can't put a price on is atmosphere and enjoyment factor so fair play. Just seems to me that the more club fees rise the more people will move away to affiliate memberships with decent Muni's and then private clubs really lose out as they again have to increase fees to maintain a revenue balance from the lower number of remaining members

The strange thing is Mav (and I'm not sure I buy it 100%) is that they say the increase this year is partly because they feel the membership is TOO full - and although they don't quite spell it out in so many words, the implication is that they are hoping the increases will reduce the membership a little. It seems there has been some unrest from some of the more long-standing membership who felt that there had been too many pay-and-play visitors and that the corporate membership was too migh also - and that they are trying to redress the balance to allow more tee times to be available for the "hard core" membership.

I've only been there for 3 years and apart from winter months when there is restricted daylight, I've never had too much trouble getting tee times - though that is usually by booking ahead - I understand it can be quite difficult to get ad hoc tee times

The flip side of that though is because it is so busy, that adds to the atmosphere of the club house. I've played many other courses in the area on society days etc and frequently find the clubhouse afterwards to be almost empty. At least at Sand Martins there is always a decent atmosphere in the bar and clubhouse before and after.

Oh yes - they've also thrown in free range balls this year

We seem to have hijacked the Queenwood thread a little - still looking forward to hearing about it from you. As joining fees have also been mentioned I am wondering if my club is re-introducing joining fees if they are tryint to reduce membership! (I didn't pay a joining fee three years ago - there was a nominal fee I believe but one that was usually waived to give the impression of a "deal" and as there were 4 of us joined together they didn't apply that particular levy

It really does look like a huge difference between clubs in the south up to the midlands, and from midlands up to Scotland. So for those of us lucky enough in this huge mid-area not many pay a joining fee any more. A top price to play anywhere in this area would probably be £160 to play the Brabazon.

So does the joining fee work? I suspect it does, because its a one off payment, and you wanted to get into this club for whatever reason. So once your in you are less likely to leave, so breeds some loyalty, whereas for those who haven't they can jump ship at the first sign of upset. The DD payment scheme has also had an effect, because if you get unhappy, you just walk and cancel the DD which means you are only paying for what you've had ....

Would I pay a joining fee? Yes and probably will before too long as I'm thinking about getting into Vale Royal Abbey in Cheshire. £1,250 joining fee and then £1,250 per year. Why would I do this? well the course is quiet so I can play whenever I want, as there's no visitors (Excluding members guests) no society's. The atmosphere is good, food is good, but also possibly because its a bit exclusive, so maybe a bit of snob-factor involved too.

Mav, I know you were a long time member of one club but left when you moved house recently. Did you pay a joining fee at both clubs?

I was a member down at littlestone and when I left there my heart broke I kept social membership as this was a nominal amount and meant I could get reduced green fees to play with my friends who are still members. There was a joining fee there and still is from what I know however mine was at a reduced rate due to my age at time of joining there put me in their intermediate bracket. As for my recent club there was a joining but was reduced by 75% as my father and brother were members so I got it for about 200quid.

However they since put the fees up which has led to many leaving, its a good course but the atmosphere off it stinks so people have thought they may as well go up the road to a championship course with better atmosphere for the same price! My dad has to let his lapse as they would not offer a suspension of membership whilst he has his hip replacement done and recovery is complete, quite shocking considering he's been there 20years, so he now has membership only at Gillingham his away club as they've been most accomodating in that he can use the clubhouse facilites whilst having his payments suspended until he's healed and offered the use of a free buggy upon his return until he is comfortabke to walk the course and that's 600quid a year less for 7 day membership.

There's likely to be a joining fee at whichever club I choose to join when we move in late July, which I'll have to take on the chin as I'll need a club I can just intergarte into easily as I'll be the complete new kid on the block.

Davie: too many members? Seems an odd scenario for a club to get themselves in, was there a reason they took on so many members did they need the revenue at the time! Can they not simply reduce the number of society days, green fees and corporate memberships?

Imo in future if they open membership up again the could struggle to get people through the door as tales of how they purposely priced past members out of their membership is not a good scenario or trustworthy 2 way relationship from the club after all if that's how they treat loyal members what would potential future newcomers think they would be treated like!

Doc wrote:The DD payment scheme has also had an effect, because if you get unhappy, you just walk and cancel the DD which means you are only paying for what you've had ....

Doc - the DD schemes don't work that way (at least in theory). You sign up for 12 months and if you decided to quit mid-year you would still be liable for the payments.

How much they would pursue it in real life, I don't know, but at least legally they would be entitled to the full amount

Davie wrote:

Doc wrote:The DD payment scheme has also had an effect, because if you get unhappy, you just walk and cancel the DD which means you are only paying for what you've had ....

Doc - the DD schemes don't work that way (at least in theory). You sign up for 12 months and if you decided to quit mid-year you would still be liable for the payments.

How much they would pursue it in real life, I don't know, but at least legally they would be entitled to the full amount

There's a club not to far from me, one I've talked about on here before and I know fellow poster DelBoy is a member of, West Malling GC when I was looking at memberships upon my return to the area they informed me theirs works solely on DD and that to join I just setup the DD and play if I ever wanted to leave I cancel the DD and that's it no further payments!

Now I found that odd because anywhere else I've been has been like you say Davie regardless of when you leave your liable for the full 12months! The other reason I found it odd was because when I was 18 I joined West Malling as an early years intermediate for 2 years as it was a quite prestigious place to be then and had some real top county players that I wanted to play with and against. I only let membership lapse as I joined the Army but since my return the club is a far cry from the place it was and I think theor membership policy now shows that!

The DD scheme in my area is a bit of a joke, simply because clubs are trying to poach members from rival clubs. I know of plenty of players who have walked between clubs, and just cancelled the DD.

The Malton & Norton GC which I mentioned earlier as being my new away course, have a £400 joining fee, which I can pay off at £100 per year. I put a cheque in the post last night for £380 which is 1-years country membership and the part joining fee. If I leave at the end of the year officially I still owe them £300 joining fee, but they have no chance of persuing me for it. So in effect its like a DD that's cancelled as there's no contract signed.

In my opinion clubs have gone the extra mile to entice members by offering DD payments, but it's backfiring on them as players move between clubs without penalty. They would probably stay until the end of the year if they had already paid their full subs, as they would see it as lost money.

The fiancial problems at the moment will probably show that 2012 will have the lowest number of golf club members. More players are deciding to pay and play due to tight finances, and it also allows them to be more nomadic and get around more to experience other courses. There's plenty of deals being offered like 2 for 1, so clubs are shooting themselves in the foot. This could also be good for the more exclusive private members clubs, as the more affluent member decides that his present club has gone backwards. Too many strangers in the club house, spikes bar turning into a tap-room, struggling to get tee times because so many society's and visitors are allowed to pay a play. Club revenue down means fewer green keeping staff and course not being looked after etc. If my home course does this, i will be gone and go to Vale Royal knowing I will be paying double plus a huge joining fee, but I know I would be getting great service, a great course etc where i can play whenever i want, withoiut the crowds. But I'm lucky that I'm able to do this.

For comparison purposes, membership at my place for the coming year is £108 a month (£1,296 a year) - that also includes gym membership.

Seemingly, that's good value (especially for Surrey).

Righty then. I have had 2 lots of cortisone injectiones, hot and cold treatments on my knee and am strapped up like a lesbian about to take her mate for one of those errrr films! Not that I've seen one!

All in a bid to make sure I can play Queenwood today, my client whom is hosting me today has arranged for us to have a caddy each, how very tour pro! All to make sure all I need do is somehow to walk the course.

So of I toddle for my round and to make use of the facilites, just fingers crossed I make it round.

That is very brave of you Mav.

But you didn't need to go as far as to strapadictomy.

We all know your selfless heroism.

Hope everything holds together.

Just finished playing now, knee is sore but held up well, going for a spot of lunch but will do a full review this evening once I get home but have to say I was impressed by the place considering its only 11years old

Glad that your knee held up Mav. Looking forward to the report!

So where to begin then:

For those that don't know where this is, its situated in Ottershaw in Surrey the entrance right opposite to Foxhills GC.

Design by David McLay-Kidd, whose other offerings include Bandon Dunes, TP San Francisco and a personal favourite of SR's the Castle Course at St Andrews.

The entrance is a posh yet fortress style gate that only allows the rich and famous through unless you get lucky.

Upon arrival beware of parking your wagon amongst the bentleys, ferraris and even the lesser spotter Bugatti Veyron!!! I parked next to it just to have a nose at it!

Upon arrival your clubs are taken and cleaned by the golf services department as are your shoes. I thought my client was doing me a favour in getting me a caddy to carry for me to save my knee, little did I know a caddy was compulsory. You can choose a Cat A, B or C caddy, the difference is their levels of experience of the course and price is £150, £90 or £60 according to your choice!

So once you decide to tee off the first port of call is the grass driving range where your clubs are ready and waiting along with your caddy who is armed with a pin sheet, and unbelievably tour like detailed yardage chart giving every imaginable yardage. Caddies are dressed exactly as they are at Augusta, white overalls, green hats and white shoes. Next up is to hit shots with the brand new Pro V1 range balls all cleaned. Various targets to hit to. Then there's a stint on the putting green that we were told was running at 13 on the stimp.

Off to the first tee, where upon getting there we were asked which tee's would you like to play today, so we went with the Gold tees which are the very back one. We were then given as many free tees, pencils and pitch mark repairers we wanted, enough to arm a small nation, but were told the caddy must carry them to prevent us from worrying about doing so!!!!

The course measures 6831yards, is heathland in design, but alas I could get no pictures! I was not allowed to apparently it adds to the mystique of the place! But to get an idea of what the bunkering and rough heather around them is like check out images of Bandon Dunes!

There are 5 par5s, 5 Par3s and 8 Par4s. No 2 holes are the same in anyway whatsoever and have their own unique identities and can be played in a variety of ways by all, no matter what your standard of play. So in that respect a good design.

Dependant on which tee plus pin locations every hole can play upto 100 -150 yards longer. Also add in every single sprinkler on the course has yardages to the front and centre of the green printed on them they really have left no stone unturned in preparation and standard of this course, the condition is 10 out of 10 and its not unusual to be putting from upto and one excess of 100 feet if you hit the wrong part of the hugely undulating putting surfaces as the ball can roll forever on the greens that were today we were told 13 on the stimp to match the putting green.

The opening hole is the 1st of the Par5s, also has its own putting green adjacent to it in case you have to wait or fancy a last minute putt! Right from this opening hole you get the feel for the course, it looks wide open but is lined the whole way with bunkers and offers so many options for everyone. I went with the driver and hit it well and thanks to the precise nature of the yardage books and markers. The caddy informed me I'd hit my drive 283yards and had exactly 254yards to the flag, with 200 to carry the stream. Naturally giving it the ego and fact it was slightly down hill I asked for the 3wood and gave it everything pitched it pin hit and there it stopped after one bounce, incredibly receptive greens, which I then proceeded to 3putt as reading them with the pace was a nightmare but a nice on to have!

The 2nd a fabulous par 4 dog leg left again went driver, needed a 5 iron to get there, to give you an idea of the size of the green my caddy informed me the pin today is 49yards on from front and 6 from the right! So that meant I needed almost 4 clubs difference based on where the pin was! I missed the green left and had the mother of all shots across the greased lightening surface all downhill! Barely kept the ball on the putting surface!

Onto the 3rd, was told not to hit the driver as the flag was only 7yards on and its uphill to the green and any wedged approach would spin off the front and come upto 90yards back down the slope to my feet!!!! I swear to god the fairways were so tight and true they are better than the greens at most places you will play.

The round continued this way all the way around, every shot does require thought and good selection and above all 100% commitment. One shot that stands out is the approach to the 16th not a long hole but a tight drive and daunting 2nd for the faint hearted, over a lake to a green that slopes dramatically back to front toward the water. After hitting a 3wood from the tee at the caddies recommendation I was left with just a full wedge, but advised to hit a full 8iron? Now this had to question but when he mentioned the slope and how it acts like a back stop, I said I'd meet him half way and hit the 9iron! Hit is flush pitched around 15yards beyond the flag then just as I thought it stopped and he'd called it wrong, the ball began due to the speed of the surface and slope to come back toward the hole, then past the hole stopping just a yard shy of the water and a got 20feet short of the pin!! Seems he was right I should of hit the 8iron!

The finishing hole another par 5 winds its way back upto the clubhouse is heavily bunkered so premium on accuracy, managed to find the fairway so thought why not have a crack at the green, a good strike then small gust of wind later I was in the deep front bunker so far below the green I couldn't even see the clubhouse. Thought sod it went with where I thought the flag was and blasted it out! Turns out I was miles off and had a 40footer for birdie as I'd landed the wrong side of a slope and ball just rolled away! Saving grace was when the caddy told me last time he caddied there for Mr Lineker he air mailed the green and had to pay for a repair to clubhouse window! 2 putts later I signed for a +1 73 nett 74 and I was happy with that score and how I'd played.

With Queenwood there is no par 5 that is not risk reward and offers the chance of eagle putt for the brave if your long enough or birdie putt for the smart play, yet they could easily yield 7 or 8's for the fool hardy. The par 3's offer realistic birdies all round equally can ruin your card for being to bold! The par 4's were my favourites and complete the course, the SI 1 is nowhere near the longest, but is really tight and needs good thought out play. The approaches offer options of flyinging it in or running one in but you need be accurate. Last year they dug up and renewed every green as they were not happy now having played them I'd say if they were good before they're now exceptional.

This is one of those course you simply could not get bored of playing as there are so many ways to play each hole, from different tees, to different club options and varied pins. You get the feeling of being the only people on the course simply because you never see a hole on the course except for the one your playing. Imo the designer has made this a must play if you get the chance and a real gem. I'd go as far as saying the condition is above and beyond the likes of wentworth (that pains me as I'm such a fan of the west course), there are other fabulous courses of this ilk such as sunningdale, walton heath etc and I've played them all, I'd go as far to say Queenwood is better, which is a bold statement I doubt I'd have made if I'd played this a few years ago as it would not have been matured enough, but with time and the level of upkeep this will continue to grow and is easy to see why they boast such members as Els, Scott, Howell, Clarke, McGinley etc.

There's one huge problem though! The fact its so closed shop means majority will never get through the gates to see it and for it to take a proper place amongst elite courses as such, yet its probably the most elite out there for that reason! They really have gone all out to make this the ANGC of the uk and imo they have succeeded, I loved playing it and if I get chance I'd play again but it really is a little to snobby.

So to summarise, it has it all, should you play it if ever lucky enough? Yes it has options for everyone, will you love the facilities? Yes they are second to none. Will you enjoy the clubhouse? No way to snobby I wasn't allowed in with short sleeves due to my tattoos! Is it worth the $300k joining fee no way no golf course is worth that.

That's an excellent review Mav!

Just out of interest, what handicap was your playing partner if you played off the back tees - and how did he fare?

His handicap davie is a USGA slope rated handicap and is a 5. He shot an 83 he played some really nice golf, he struggled a little with course management and didn't always use his caddy to best advantage foe his knowledge of the course, had he done that I think he could've shaved 3 or 4 shots off that.

I've always said my course management is a strong part of my game, but really did need the caddies knowledge of the slope and exact yardages as a mere yard out with the greens could be the difference between 1foot or. 100foot putt.

Nice one Mav and sounds like a great experience, and one i would love to have. Problem being though; is it worth the money to be a member compared to what most of us pay and play on?

Yes it must be great being a member there, and getting looked after and playing on a stunning course, but suspect much of it is down to the kudos, or oneupmanship of being able to boast about being a member. Value for money?

Hi Doc:

Imo no golf course is worth that amount of money to play at. Is it worth more than the average cost of membership? Yes because the condition is above and beyond even places like Wentworth, but again I'd say not worth the exorbitant amount they charge

In all honesty the members I came across were not snobs or looking for one upmanship, the snobbery imo comes across in the code of conduct the clubs sets out which the members must adhere to. There's a relaxed dress code in the clubhouse, spikeless golf shoes are allowed throughout however no tattoos are allowed on show! So it has some good rules and some bizarre.

I got the impression that from a rich businessmans point of view it is very much for the kudosof playing such a place, but from the point of view from say a famous person or pro golfer its more about the ability to get away from the pressures of media and general public seeking a piece of them whilst they try to relax. Your very well catered for but are left totally alone at the same time if that makes sense!

One good thing they do have in place which helps dispell part of the snobbery myth is they let all the caddies play the course and have free roam of the place on Mondays from 11am. They also let the caddies have full use of the practice facilities all for free. So a perk of their job if you like. Sadly though there are to many rules the management have in place that do make this a little to stiffled for the average man like you and I.

But should you ever get the chance to play it I would recommend you snap the chance up with both hands you will really enjoy it, but is it VFM? Nothing that costs that much can be good vfm if you ask me.

That's an excellent read, Mav.

Without wishing to offend anyone, if I ran my own golf club, I wouldn't allow tattoos to be visible.

Hmmm - tattoos (along with smokers) will always generate healthy (though not necessarily golf-related) debate. Don't want to stifle any debate but perhaps Mav would consider copy and pasting his excellent review and duplicating it in the "course reviews" section - IMO it deserves a standalone thread. Then if things get slightly derailed here it wont take away from the review?

I'd do it myself but then it would be in my name, not Mav's and it deserves his name there