Matchplay allowances

In the coming weeks I will be playing the final of my clubs summer knockout and giving away 16 shots to my opponent. That seems to me to be an excessive number of shots for what is a major competition with a trophy, board and all the rest of it associated.

Couple that with the previous rounds where I have given away 8, 11 and 14 shots and it seems very strong to me. I understand that it has been considered unfair to higher handicaps that their allotment is reduced to 3/4 under the previous rulings but high handicap players generally have a bad hole or two that increases their scoring rather than a poor all round game on any given day.

I truly think that this full allowance nonsense is something designed to pander to the shit players in these events when in reality they should be limited to a maximum handicap of 18 rather than 28 (any man who truly needs 2 shots a hole needs to be slapped or forced to undergo gender reassignment) and then have the 3/4 difference applied.

Rant over. For the moment anyway.

Not nice LJ ... guess I must be one of those shit players

not really Davie. I suspect you are more likely to have a couple of bad holes where you turn in a quad or something and the rest amounts to you playing to something like 15 or so.

My issue is with those who constantly make doubles or triples on pretty much the entire track and argue that they can play the game if they are afforded full shot allowances.

3/4 difference handled the high handicap differences correctly by adjusting for the odd bad holes. Thus making for a level playing field.

This full difference nonsense just allows the crappiest of high handcap players to feel better about themselves.

Although I do think there is never a need for more than a shot a hole.

I remember reading a report showing that the lower handicapper still generally comes out on top regardless of giving full or 3/4 difference.
 
A couple of big drives and the odd comment along the lines of "I can't believe you hit it as well as you do with that weird swing" should do the trick LJ, I'm sure you will be fine

I tend to ignore people when playing properly blue. That upsets them a lot more than the typical gamesmanship.

Surprised that your final is not over 36 holes though, that would have definitely been in your favour

I've won a fair few matchplay titles over the years (I think it's about 8 or so of varying types) and never had a 36 hole final.

Had a few go 22 holes though.

Fair enough, both my present and previous club play the singles matchplay (and doubles for my current club) final over 36 holes.

I thnk you maybe summed my game up pretty well LJ ... but I'd say if you have a problem with someone who "constantly make doubles or triples on pretty much the entire track" then it's you who isn't playing to handicap

If you put ME up against someone who made constant doubles and triples then even I'd be happy to give them a few shots and still be confident of beating them

It's those that make constant doubles and triples in qualifiers and then make pars and birdies against me in matchplay that I take issue with. I know the answer to that is just to play in scratch events, if only I was good enough to compete at that level!  

Davie I didn't say I wasn't completely happy with the prospect of the game... just that i don't like the way the stroke allowance is worked out.

I have complete faith that I am going to kick this guys arse firmly and accurately leaving a size 9 hole where there used to be a small puckered starfish.

That's more like it LJ

I think for all major club comps the total allowance for men should be 18 handicap and then 3/4 handicap should be applied to each player involved; ergo 14 strokes should be the highest handicap you should be playing against which would still give them (by my reckoning of your current handicap) about 12 shots against you. Given that us high handicappers have one/two nightmare holes, that should even things up somewhat. But I would always aim to par at least 5-7 holes on any course I play, with poss one birdie thrown in for good measure, so there is no reason over 18 holes why it shouldn't be a fair contest.....  

I tend towards thinking that a max of 18 and then 3/4 is a bit strong... but the comment "I would always aim for 5-7 pars and a birdie" shows the manner in which your average high handicapper plays the game.

Noshanking wrote:I think for all major club comps the total allowance for men should be 18 handicap and then 3/4 handicap should be applied to each player involved; ergo 14 strokes should be the highest handicap you should be playing against which would still give them (by my reckoning of your current handicap) about 12 shots against you. Given that us high handicappers have one/two nightmare holes, that should even things up somewhat. But I would always aim to par at least 5-7 holes on any course I play, with poss one birdie thrown in for good measure, so there is no reason over 18 holes why it shouldn't be a fair contest.....  

I seem to remeber you were against 3/4 allowance when we were playing at OFM! Full allowance was the cry heard all the way from 'Nam.

In matchplay, I think 3/4 of full difference is fair, but I disagree with mens handicap being as high as 28, should revert back to 24, then the maximum would be a shot a hole. High handicapper would have the advantage at the shorter holes and low at the longer holes. But bear in mind the fact that a high handicapper can take 5 or 6 on a short hole just as easily as on a longer one.

LJ when we have played, you have given me 10 or 11 shots and comprehensively stuffed me on all occasions. I have total faith in your ability to 'tear a new starfish' for your opponent!  

NST - sorry mate I did you an injustice there. I've just remembered we were playing strokeplay then and not matchplay!  

I have no plans to create a secondary starfish. My preferred approach is to extend and expand the original opening until such time as there is no muscular control and everything just flows through into an adult nappy. Which will of course by then be permanently required.

oldshanker wrote:NST - sorry mate I did you an injustice there. I've just remembered we were playing strokeplay then and not matchplay!  

I've improved a bit since then Shanker. 81 in the medal today; 5 pars, 2 birdies, net 60. One triple and hit the flag right at the base on a par 3 came pretty close to aceing it. Handicap cut en-route for moi. If memory serves me correct we played stableford at Barnet and one SmithersJones scooped the prize money............

Lost my final... That guy was not a 21 handicapper. Hitting driver not far off mine when he got hold of it... and 3 wood from the rough like it was on the fairway. I dropped 1 shot to par and lost on the 17th when he got up and down from a plugged lie in a wet bunker.

Apparently he's been in the winter final, won the summer now, and is in the summer doubles final as well.

I suspect a dodgy player. Particularly as his last four scores have been 41 points from the back tees, but in competition he struggles to get 36.

Having worked hard at the game over the years to get good at it and play off a low handicap. It's starting to grate with me when people bang on about 'handicappers being the great leveller for all. Fair enough when we get old and can't hit the ball far. But I am getting fed up of playing people of my age, who put no time into there games. Play off generally around 13-16 and constantly clean up in comps , bar the scratch. Golfs the only game that rewards mediocrity and some people are taking money and board comps by being average too much!!! aaargghh, rant over

It's a fair rant.

This guy parred the first three. Then hit a dodgy one into the drink on the 4th but made a 6. Then proceeded to hit driver and an iron into a 450 yard uphill par 4 into a wind. There isn't a 21 handicapper on the planet who can hit shots like that unless they are dropping rapidly. And this guy has stayed static for a year.

I suspect he might get called on it soon if it carries on.

Who's ever heard of this then? My club wants to change Texas scrambles from 10% to an average handicap of the player to enable higher handicappers to compete better!! Oh, by the way, we even have had scrambles of 20%. I've never seen any other club do that! My golf club is going to the dogs because it is run by a bunch of old farts, seriously thinking of looking for a new club next summer!!

texas scrambles are hardly golf. It's just hitting a ball for a bit of fun.

And the answer is simple... just take a few high handicappers along for the ride.

So when your paying £10 a head to enter club scrambles you'd be happy with that? It is is golf, it's a team game and monies involved so don't agree with your point. However, we have been here before haven't we?

Maybe if I'd have put handicap comps are hardly golf, so only play scratch events if your better than them might just rub you up the wrong way LJ??

you pay £10 for comps? We only pay a fiver!

3 for us but there isn't a 2's sweep so that would account for the difference with your's I imagine Davie.

As for scrambles being golf... How? You don't have to hit your bad ones in a scramble. And golf is not about your best shot. It's about how good your worst shots are and what you can do with them. That's why it isn't a team game.

And not sure how that might rub me up the wrong way. I have no issue with handicaps. I do have an issue with false handicaps but then so should everyone.

yeah I forgot the 2s sweep - our comps are £4 plus a pound for twos

I've always seen scrambles as just fun events and love them myself. In fact we have a mixed scramble this weekend. At a bit of a disadvantage though as we don't have a long hitter in our team. I can see us having a few holes we can't hit in regulation even with the best drive and best second shot

And I don't know anyone who doesn't have an issue with false handicaps .. except perhaps for the false handicapper himself

Exactly Davie. Scrambles are fun... not golf in the slightest. Just a laugh with other people to shoot a number which is normally out of reach of everyone. Like 56 or something.

Well I've watched this article develop over the last week, and feel the need to comment. Although I hate the handicap bandits and have mentioned this on here before, I'm also a complainer about our handicap system. But find it strange that some on here now want to see 3/4 handicaps used, why? What is the point of a handicap when some low handicappers can complain and get it changed to 3/4 handicap comp. A handicap is supposed to be a fair refelection on the skill level of all players, so that they can compete against each other fairly.

Personally 3/4 handicaps are fine. But in matchplay I prefer the 3/4 difference.

I'd be happy to give full difference to anyone who played a reasonable number of qualifying comps the previous season - 3 doesn't cut it for me. Max hcp of 18 would be reasonable too.

Handicaps, if used correctly and being a fair reflection of the players ability, are fine and they work well Matelot, (although I still believe the gents handicap limit should not have been raised from 24). In stroke play they are the great leveller and should even the playing field, not accounting of course for the 100 year wave.  

Where they can fall apart is in Matchplay. Here, the higher handicapper is, I believe, at an advantage. Because the 3-4 disaster holes where 7,8,or 9 is scored, can only be penalised as a loss of one hole and if they happen on holes where they do not get a stroke, then the advantage is greater.

I play off 17 and struggle to be consistent, because I do not play often enough. You obviously do play often enough Matelot Golfer to be a low handicap. If you cannot accept the occasional bit of competition from higher handicap golfers who happen to hit a purple patch on that day, then don't enter that sort of competition. If they genuinely do have a perfect day on the course, then take heart from the fact that the next round will probably be a disaster for them.

None of this of course addresses the blatant 'pot hunter' that LJ came upon. There is no way on Gods Earth that a genuine 21 handicapper should have been able to hold things together through all of the rounds of a knockout and get into the winter final and the doubles final as well.

The guy is a real sandbagger and deserves a new starfish right in the middle of his sloping cro-magnon forehead!

No, I agree, the other day the main guy in question at our club, off 21 as it happens, played quaters of summer Matchplay and got 17 shots. He then proceeded to play to 6 over, not for the first time. Grumblings in club and he gets word people at not happy. Apparently decides to Plays only his 4th medal/stableforsd of the year, rather than just the 3 to kerp his handicap active, the following day and gets 47 pts and a handicap reduction of 3 shots. That's sandbagging

I agree with both Shanks and Matelot here, and I'm one of those players who only have a handicap so that I can enter the odd Open, invitiation event and obviously just in case i'm asked for it whilst abroad etc.  As mentioned on another thread I have recently been cut from 18 to 13.9 at my new club via the 3-card rule. I took it upon myself to resolve it because I only played in 2 QC events last year and went inactive so needed to resolve things. My cards were done with the handicap secretary, captain and my former club handicap secretary, so all above board and was really pleased, yet surprised to get cut by 4. However this course is much tougher than my former club, so I've obviously improved. If everyone was open and honest about their handicaps we wouldn't have so much bother. I've never won anything within my golf clubs, and probably never will, but it doesn't mean that I should resort to bend the rules so that I can win a pot!

Maybe its time that CONGU looked at this again and if they are happy with the present system, fine. But they should then classify every club/course in the UK so that a +/- difficulty rating is calculated for members of other clubs entering Open's etc. An 18 handicap at my club is probably a 12 at my old club?

Doc, thanks, an honest appraisal by someone and I think you've hit the nail on the head. Someone handicaps travel well and others do not. That bears out by some club matches I've played in. A couple of 5 handicappers from St mellion I sometimes play with would undoubtedly play off 1, max 2 at clubs around me. Shooting my handicap there requires far more concentration than any other course in the Cornwall area.

Surely CONGU could never address that properly unless they adopt the US style slope rating - it's certainly true that some clubs' handicaps travel better than others. My own club is know for that to a small degree but I recently played a club match at Temple golf club near Maidenhead - and the guys I played against freely admitted that their home handicaps travel even better than ours

I can see the sense in the CONGU status as it stands but there are definitely exceptions.

To be perfectly honest, matchplay or strokeplay I'm almost dreading the next NQ comp or match I play in as I now KNOW I can play better then my current h/c. Conversely I now know I'll be much more nervous the next Qualie I play as I know the pressure will be on to do it again .. FWIW I've just played two friendly "bounce" games in the last couple of days and I've come nowhere near my current handicap - never mind the one I think I should now be on - yesterday scored 30 stableford pts (off the yellows) and today a matchplay that was perhaps estimated at 31-32 pts but that flattered to deceive. I was poor really

scarpa wrote:I'd be happy to give full difference to anyone who played a reasonable number of qualifying comps the previous season - 3 doesn't cut it for me. Max hcp of 18 would be reasonable too.

I agree. I think you should submit a minimum of 6 qualifying competition scores (medal and/or stableford) to qualify for major competitions both in your home club and elsewhere.

Also, anyone suspected of playing off a dodgy handicap should be obliged to play at least one comp with a committee member who can monitor not only the score but the aptitude of said bandito. Isn't it rule 19 (or used to be) which permits the committee to reduce a handicap based on perceived ability?

I had a 1 shot cut in the annual review at the start of this year, to 9. I've played half a dozen qualifiers this year and have gone up .4 and hit buffer in the other two. On a society trip at the weekend I played off 7, hit the ball awfully and scored 32 and 34 points, the latter missing 2 sub-2 footers. I'd love to be able to say I was off 5 or 6 but I can't get cut in competition play at home. At the same time, I can play poorly and still be around my handicap on other, easier courses. Drives me nuts!