Distance measuring devices

Apologies if this has been done to death in 'another place' but I am struggling to get a straight answer regarding the use of smartphone apps from anyone.

There is a joint statement from the R&A/USGA but even that is somewhat vague and non-commital. It is fairly clear that there isn't a problem with an app that measures the horizontal distance between two points so Golfcard, Golf GPS etc are all OK. Similarly it is clear that a spirit level would not be allowed because it could assist the player in determining the slope on a putt; there is no difficulty here though because it is not a built in feature so can be removed before play and added back in afterwards if necessary. There have been some questions about wind speed and temperature but there is nothing on an iphone that can measure either of these so I think this is OK as well.

The debate seems to centre around the built in compass. The joint statement specifically prohibits devices that can measure wind speed, temperature etc but does not mention wind direction. An article by David Rickman on the R&A website on the other hand does mention the compass feature. Personally I do not see how a compass can aid in the playing of the shot; it won't measure the wind direction for me directly, I would still have to decide that for myself. Knowing whether it is from the North, South, East or West wont help much either - I need to know if it from behind, off the left etc.

What I really can't understand is why the R&A will not come out with a definitive list of devices that are permitted and allow manufacturers to submit them for evaluation in exactly the same way as they do with clubs and balls. It is absolutely clear to all of us then that if it isn't on the list then it isn't allowed.

Alternatively, Apple (and others) could give is a way to disable the compass feature although if this is the only problem why can the player not be trusted not to use it just as we are trusted to declare a double hit or if we accidentally ground a club in a hazard?

Jethro, I think its because of the number of different types of devices that have come along in the last 12-months. Ever since Skycaddie was allowed followed by Bushnell range finders, they have messed around evaluating. The latest Bushnell that has slope measuring is deemed illegal but the standard and pinseeker versions are ok. The R&A have enough trouble evaluating and ruling on new drivers, irons, grooves, shafts etc to keep them busy, and we know they don't move fast on anything. It took them ages to sort out ball marking as an example.

Phone Apps are something I bet none of them have, and will really struggle keeping up as new apps come out every week. I agree though that they should do something, even if it was to ban all phone apps completley, therefore making the rule clear to all

Jethro... the iPhone has the capability to provide windspeed and direction information via inbuilt apps... and more sophisticated information via additional apps.

Those mean that it does break the rules for the use of devices containing such information. Harsh as it's also a phone... but there you are.

LJO

Yes, it can provide windspeed and direction information but only from an internet service - nothing is measured by the device itself. The website says only that gauging or measuring is prohibited.

Anyone got any views on the Garmin S1 Approach! Played with a guy using one the other day and may look into getting Mavette one for crimbo as saves me paying a yearly subscription for her and a range finder is over her budget for the year as we make sure kids all have same amount spent on them for fairness....

I think it's ridiculous that the use of the iPhone 3GS, 4 and 4S wasn't clarified when they issued the rules update recently.

You've got a chap from the USGA who expressly states that iPhones are not banned, but he said this in 2009 which may have been before the compass was made a non-deleteable App on the iPhone.

I understand it's the compass that's causing the issue not slope and wind speed measurement.

Surely it's the capability that they are banning however. It's capable of receiving the info so is banned.

Although it would be bizarre to ban a phone when they are essential emergency devices to so many people these days.

LJ are there not still clubs that ban phones from the course/clubhouse as a matter of course? In other words no phones allowed in your bag even, although this seems a bit of a joke when they can come in handy for emergencies and of course ordering bacon baps for the 2nd nine

They've not banned the phone, LJ.

You can keep it in your bag.

There appears to be contradiction in the golf rules on compasses. You can have a compass in your pocket, but you can't use it.

The suggestion is you can't use an iPhone because it has a compass on it, even if you wouldn't use it.

I understand this contradiction arises from the change to rules after the introduction of laser range finders with the ability to factor in slope. As you couldn't tell whether someone was using the slope option, the golf authorities stated that even just having the ability made it prohibited.

Then iPhones came along and you have one rule brought in to stop one specific device potentially stopping a completely different device from being legal because of a technicality.

Doc if a club told me that I would counter with:

I have a pregnant partner. I require it in case of a problem there.
I have a son who is allergic to a great number of things, one serious enough that we are required to carry adrenalin with us permanently. If something happens I need to be contactable.
I have a mother in hospital seriously ill. I need to be contactable.

And if they told me no I would tell them to stuff it and talk to the man in charge.

LJ

If it is the capability of receiving the info then any phone that can connect to the internet would have to be banned regardless of whether it was used for that purpose or not. As you say though, to ban phones completely on the course even for emergencies is plain daft. It is easy to be the best part of two miles from the clubhouse while out on the course and that can make the difference between life and death. In my experience though most clubs have a fairly pragmatic approach to this and provided that it is not used then there isn't a problem.

I guess my concern is that as these devices become more commonplace, more and more people will be using them with huge potential for argument. Imagine if the winner of the Club Champs was found to have an iphone in his/her pocket when they returned to the clubhouse.

Personally I will continue to use mine in bounce games, home and away, but not in competition. The app I have was free and I need the phone for work but if I had £150 to spend on golf I suspect that a few lessons might be a better investment.

Maverick wrote:Anyone got any views on the Garmin S1 Approach! Played with a guy using one the other day and may look into getting Mavette one for crimbo as saves me paying a yearly subscription for her and a range finder is over her budget for the year as we make sure kids all have same amount spent on them for fairness....

Are you talking about the wristwatch type Mav?

As a watch collector, I fancy having one of those. Maybe Santa will provide.

Was talking to the owner of the virtual golf I use, and he had a punter who tried using his rangefinder there. Couldn't work out why it would only read 3 yards!

oldshanker wrote:
Was talking to the owner of the virtual golf I use, and he had a punter who tried using his rangefinder there. Couldn't work out why it would only read 3 yards!

That's made my day, brilliant. I love stupid people!

I ve just downloaded an app on my phone. You tape the phone to the club and it means you can exactly replicate whichever pros swing you want to a billionth of a degree. First swing I tried was the Sergio swing, all it did though was to allow me to launch my 4 iron into the nearest lake!!( watch him at Thailand open if you can to understand this one!!!).
Once I had fished my phone out of the lake I then entered the 'Luke Donald' swing and shot 65 gross this afternoon in a gale force wind. Best app ever, do you think it's illegal!!!!

oldshanker wrote:

Maverick wrote:Anyone got any views on the Garmin S1 Approach! Played with a guy using one the other day and may look into getting Mavette one for crimbo as saves me paying a yearly subscription for her and a range finder is over her budget for the year as we make sure kids all have same amount spent on them for fairness....

Are you talking about the wristwatch type Mav?

As a watch collector, I fancy having one of those. Maybe Santa will provide.

Was talking to the owner of the virtual golf I use, and he had a punter who tried using his rangefinder there. Couldn't work out why it would only read 3 yards!

OS

That's the badger. Played against a guy in my recent knockout who had one looked a decent bit of kit I was pleasantly surprised when I look at it post round. I think he said it was about £130 and is pre-loaded with something like 5000 courses(may have been 500) which meant no requirement for subs like the sky caddie. Was thinking it'd be ideal for Mavette and of course me should I need to borrow it in case the bushnell misbehaves

Also has the function to pace out yaradhes on practice range so I'm told

i use the old golfshot gps. Best £14.99 I've spent

I've got that Del, but as an iPhone app i've always assumed it's not allowed in competition

MustPuttBetter wrote:I've got that Del, but as an iPhone app i've always assumed it's not allowed in competition

Good point maybe I should check rather than assume!!