To the inconsiderate git . . .

First topic message reminder :

n/t

Merc

I can't help but think that you are only seeing this from your own perspective. If you hadn't personally been affected then I get the feeling that you wouldn't have given a sh1t about the inconvenience suffered by thousands of other people. But because you are out of pocket you want to vent your anger and get it off your chest.

That's fine, go ahead and get it off your chest. All I ask is that you see the other side of the story, the side that I consider to be more important. Like shattered lives.

Noshankingtonite wrote:Mercurio / Diggers - you two make me laugh; it's like having our very own Morcombe & Wise Christmas Special on here. The 'Dark-Side' have got Mac n Mabel (sorry SuperRealist) and we've got you two

I'm afraid the partnership has ended, noshanking. I've wasted enough time humouring his contraryness.

I was the carer for someone who tried to kill themselves for the first two to three weeks after the event.
Their brain was working like treacle, turns out they had barely been sleeping for months up until the act and were hardly functioning at all. All ability for rational thought or the impact of their actions on others was gone.
This person wasnt always like that, issues make or illness change people. How would someone react if their whole family was wiped out in a car crash or even if just one of their kids died?
We dont know the full circumstances of this situation but I do know that from what I have seen first hand I would not be quick to judge anyone for killing themselves or their choice of where they did it as it is clearly not always a premedidated act.

Merc your letting us down with breaking up the double act. Besides one mans contrayness is another mans opinion and one mans opinion is another contraryness.

Works both ways..... End of the day can't agree on everything

Mercurio wrote:

Noshankingtonite wrote:Mercurio / Diggers - you two make me laugh; it's like having our very own Morcombe & Wise Christmas Special on here. The 'Dark-Side' have got Mac n Mabel (sorry SuperRealist) and we've got you two

I'm afraid the partnership has ended, noshanking. I've wasted enough time humouring his contraryness.

Oh no, how can my life be complete anymore, how can I go on. Maybe I will throw myself under a train, when your next darts match Merc ?

drive4show wrote:Merc

I can't help but think that you are only seeing this from your own perspective. If you hadn't personally been affected then I get the feeling that you wouldn't have given a sh1t about the inconvenience suffered by thousands of other people. But because you are out of pocket you want to vent your anger and get it off your chest.

That's fine, go ahead and get it off your chest. All I ask is that you see the other side of the story, the side that I consider to be more important. Like shattered lives.

You think incorrectly, D4S, and am actually offended that you think I wouldn't give a sh1t if I hadn't been affected. The dog wasn't mine, but I still objected. Whether or not something directly affects me doesn't determine whether it is an issue for me. I say this as an atheist but an appropriate phrase to reflect how I view things is "There, but for the grace of God, go I". Just because I'm OK doesn't mean I won't bother to get involved to fight for or defend what I believe is right.

It doesn't matter what I think about the affect on the other side is. It seems like you're telling me what I should or should not be bothered about. It'd be like me telling you that you should put time in at an animal shelter. If I told you to do that and you responded "Who are you to tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing?", I could only say, "Fair point, it's not for me to tell you what you should care about". Likewise here.

Merc

I'm not telling what you should think. All I'm asking is that you consider the shattered lives due to this sad incident. So far you have not shown any interest in that.

The tone of your posts is all 'Me Me Me'

Maverick wrote:Merc your letting us down with breaking up the double act. Besides one mans contrayness is another mans opinion and one mans opinion is another contraryness.

Works both ways..... End of the day can't agree on everything

I disagree with a lot of people on lots of things, Mav, but there's only one person who I disagree with on virtually everything, or rather, he disagrees with me on virtually everything as, historically, I've tried to ignore his posts.

There's no good to come from debating with such a person. I won't learn anything useful.

Off topic or not, this is the sort of I'll considered post that should not have started and certainly should not continue further. Some disgraceful and pathetic comments. Grow up.

Mercurio wrote:

Maverick wrote:Merc your letting us down with breaking up the double act. Besides one mans contrayness is another mans opinion and one mans opinion is another contraryness.

Works both ways..... End of the day can't agree on everything

I disagree with a lot of people on lots of things, Mav, but there's only one person who I disagree with on virtually everything, or rather, he disagrees with me on virtually everything as, historically, I've tried to ignore his posts.

There's no good to come from debating with such a person. I won't learn anything useful.

You dont debate, you just pontificate.

drive4show wrote:Merc

I'm not telling what you should think. All I'm asking is that you consider the shattered lives due to this sad incident. So far you have not shown any interest in that.

The tone of your posts is all 'Me Me Me'

It's not about me, me, me. It's about us, us, us!

I have shown no interest in the effect of this suicide on those left because I have no interest. It doesn't mean that I don't have sympathy for those left behind but there are so many tragic deaths a day that I cannot spend time thinking about one over the rest and I don't think anyone should be expected to.

I think we've all got the general gist of this one now fellas, let's move on to something else shall we?

Puligny wrote:Off topic or not, this is the sort of I'll considered post that should not have started and certainly should not continue further. Some disgraceful and pathetic comments. Grow up.

How very holier than thou.

What exactly do you have a problem with? It's a debate and my view of such a person who commits suicide is a view shared by an awful lot of people. A quick look around the internet for articles about Jeremy Clarkson's views on this show this.

I find YOUR comment above pathetic. It stinks of "I don't like the discussion topic so I don't want you to discuss it". I suggest it's you that needs to grow up.

Guys its clear this thread is splitting opinionand no-one is ever going to be right or wrong that's the way opinons work. But let's not start with the playground grow up talk no matter who has started what.

IMO suicide is selfish, I say this from experience, others think its not and thars fine.

So instead of this being the Ouroborous it becoming and infinate circle of back and forth I'm going to lock it off not because I'm over moderating orthrowing my toys out because someone disagrees but because I don't want to see a slanging match ensue amongst valid posters. This is a new site and developing nicely so far and let's keep it that way!

I think the next off topic thread should be is Mav exploiting his children getting them to act as butlers and cleaners whilst he puts his feet up

Can we all agree locking this off now is a way of agreeing to disagree. Will leave this open for 1hr if its still back and forth will close the door to it and leave it for view only

Good move Mav.

Go for it.

Also might I suggest Chimney Sweep while they are small enough to perform adequately in a restricted space.

A very, very bad move, Mav.

This is not deserving of being locked. If people have something to say lt them say it. No-one has fallen out with anyone.

Locking threads is exactly what we said this place would not be about.

Merc its not closed as yet!

This place was not about overly modding and allowing discussion to evolve. If this was the old place this thread wouldn't have got past the front door. As it is now its not evolving or developing, nothing new is being said that was said in the first 20posts its going round in the same circle!

Also this place is about self policing and decision making hence me looking for people to sya whether shutting it of is good or not. Majority will win.

Merc I'm not having a pop as you can see I clearly agree with you on this topic but you do need to agree to disagree and accept ours isn't the only opinion on this subject and neither is it right nor is it wrong just like others its merely our own opinion.

So there really is nowhere for it to develop I'm happy to leave it open for it to fizzle out but constant too'ing and fro'ing because we disagree isn't enhancing the thread, the views of any of us or making for great debate! Initially it had its merits but now all of us are becoming something of a broken record!

Locking gets my vote too. Nothing new coming out of it except for frayed tempers

Maverick wrote:Merc its not closed as yet!

This place was not about overly modding and allowing discussion to evolve. If this was the old place this thread wouldn't have got past the front door. As it is now its not evolving or developing, nothing new is being said that was said in the first 20posts its going round in the same circle!

Also this place is about self policing and decision making hence me looking for people to sya whether shutting it of is good or not. Majority will win.

Merc I'm not having a pop as you can see I clearly agree with you on this topic but you do need to agree to disagree and accept ours isn't the only opinion on this subject and neither is it right nor is iUt wrong just like others its merely our own opinion.

So there really is nowhere for it to develop I'm happy to leave it open for it to fizzle out but constant too'ing and fro'ing because we disagree isn't enhancing the thread, the views of any of us or making for great debate! Initially it had its merits but now all of us are becoming something of a broken record!

IMO, that is still no reason to lock a thread. Will you be locking all threads that have stalled or come to a conclusion. How do you know that this thread won't take a different course?

If people have had enough of a thread, they'll just not post. No-one has fallen out with anyone.

I reckon someone has contacted you because they don't like the subject. If a topic is not of interest, don't read it. It's as simple as that.

It's simply ridiculous that that this thread should be locked based on its current contents and it would go against everything this forum (especially Off Topic) is about.

Agree with Davie

Merc, come on, we moved as the other place didn't allow people to have their say. No one can say they haven't been able to express their views on this matter. The simple fact is, it's finished. The only place this can go now is anger and arguments

Bearing in mind it's early days here and people are still comparing between this place and the old (why we keep referencing what's happening over there i've no idea but we do!!), we all need to show some common sense and responsibility to let things go earlier than we might say a year down the line. The last thing we want here at the mo is arguments everywhere

Davie wrote:Locking gets my vote too. Nothing new coming out of it except for frayed tempers

The suggestion of locking it is freying tempers!

I'll give you an incentive to lock it - if it gets locked, I'm off.

It goes against what this forum was supposed to be about. Open discussion with no personal attacks and very little moderator involvement.

In my view, nothing will have changed from v2.

Probaby to everyones huge suprise, including his own, I do actually agree with Mercurio here. I dont see a real need to lock the thread down, it has probably just about ran its course anyway and I cant see there is really anywhere else to go as people are unlikely to change their stance.
Its off the main golf board as well so I dont think that many people will be paying it too much attention.
That said Im not massively botherered if the majority think its better off being closed. In which case fair enough.

We cant have a forum with no input from mods...itll be like the wild west...moderated forums are always the best ones in my experience to stop the childish idiots...

Merc, not that you should care but i'm disappointed in you.

Show a little responsibilty. When we moved you seemed to be one of the proactivists. Set an example

We don't need this right now

MustPuttBetter wrote:Merc, not that you should care but i'm disappointed in you.

Show a little responsibilty. When we moved you seemed to be one of the proactivists. Set an example

We don't need this right now

I am showing responsibility for keeping this forum true to its original values. If those values have changed, no-one told/agreed it with me.

I don't know why you're saying 'we' don't need this right now. What is this and why don't we need it right now.

Merc the only fraying I can see mate is yours

Even Stevie Wonder can see this thread run its course, every comments that made is someone saying the same things as they have already said yourself included. It seems as though unless everyone agrees you won't let it go. Then others who dosagree won't let it go unless you agree with them.

You clearly haven't acknowledge in my staement where I said I agree with you but have to take on board that's merely our opinion. With regards to this thread there is no matter of fact right or wrong answer its slowly going to develop in arguments and for a forum to grow we need to be seen to show our own views but also respect that of our fellow posters not simply conintue to retort with the same arguments in a different manner.

No one has reported this thread which Davie will be able to confirm also if you look at each post if someone clicks the report button it highlights that button red so you would be able to see what's been reported. My idea on closing this was for the sake of nipping it in the bud before a slangiing match ensued imo that is common sense. If you disagree then that's fine but we all agreed this place should be open to all and all help decide on best course of action which is why I openly posted that comment for all to have a say instead of doing what we had all become accustomed to and just seeing a thread locked which creates firther vitriol.

Happy to leave it open but are you and everyone else happy to either evolve the thread beyond its current fumes or happy to accept that simply not of us wil have the same views....

Last point, yes this place is about less moderation as was decided at the outset, also if you look back over the thread I've openly defended and agreed with your views I also stated as was off topic there was no need for any action but to let it grow.

Not much growing has occured more of a case of tennis back and forth. My only reason for posting about locking the thread was to gage views and if it was wanted then I would act on behalf of the majority.

This place is about free speech but one of the very few rules I think less than 7 were kind of agreed on was not to allow direct insults, attacks or derisory comments and as they seemingly start to appear I look at stepping in so as that wa s clearly wrong and unwanted. I'll leave as it is, not to keep you onside or for sake of keeping the forum what it was set out as, as they has never changed but because I'm damned of I do or damned if I don't.

There will always be need for some form of administration and if I'm seemignly heavy handed I'm happy to hand over to someone more open minded!!

[Mav turns and walks away from thread never to return]

Maverick wrote:Merc the only fraying I can see mate is yours

Even Stevie Wonder can see this thread run its course, every comments that made is someone saying the same things as they have already said yourself included. It seems as though unless everyone agrees you won't let it go. Then others who dosagree won't let it go unless you agree with them.

You clearly haven't acknowledge in my staement where I said I agree with you but have to take on board that's merely our opinion. With regards to this thread there is no matter of fact right or wrong answer its slowly going to develop in arguments and for a forum to grow we need to be seen to show our own views but also respect that of our fellow posters not simply conintue to retort with the same arguments in a different manner.

No one has reported this thread which Davie will be able to confirm also if you look at each post if someone clicks the report button it highlights that button red so you would be able to see what's been reported. My idea on closing this was for the sake of nipping it in the bud before a slangiing match ensued imo that is common sense. If you disagree then that's fine but we all agreed this place should be open to all and all help decide on best course of action which is why I openly posted that comment for all to have a say instead of doing what we had all become accustomed to and just seeing a thread locked which creates firther vitriol.

Happy to leave it open but are you and everyone else happy to either evolve the thread beyond its current fumes or happy to accept that simply not of us wil have the same views....

I am getting frayed - at the thought of a locked thread!

I can only respond to people if they add posts.

I abhor the thought of anyone guessing how a thread will develop and acting on those thoughts. If there's vitriol thrown at each on here, you've got the wrong kind of contributors in.

Mercurio wrote:I don't know why you're saying 'we' don't need this right now. What is this and why don't we need it right now.

'This' is people throwing their toys out and saying 'i'm going to leave'
and if you don't know why we don't need it then i've misjudged you and i don't need to bother explaining

so mercurio are you saying we need a forum where any moron can come and talk crap without fear of censorship?

dont think i agree...like i said before any good forum needs moderation...makes it far more attractive to new people...

Mav - I appreciate your support for my view in this topic, but this topic has lost its priority in light of the threat to lock a thread.

Locking a thread should be seen as a big and rare event. To do so so early in the days of this forum over a topic which does not warrant locking is the 'thick' end of the wedge.

Crossing the Rubicon, if you will.

There's a world of difference between those who hold genuine beliefs about a topic and those who use such sites to deliberately disrupt it. Seems to me this thread falls into the former rather than latter category and for this reason, I don't believe such threads should ever be locked.

There's a very simple way to end disagreements which are unlikely to be resolved and this is quite simply for posters to walk away from it. Or, to put it another way, all it takes is for one half of the argument to remove itself from the thread.

MustPuttBetter wrote:To quote this article (also proof Merc hasn't made it up)........

http://swlondoner.co.uk/content/1312706-man-hit-and-killed-train-south-croydon

"
?

Thanks for posting the link. I wasn't doubting that the incident happened but that I only had Merc's word that it was a suicide and now it's been clarified fair enough. So Merc if it had been an accident would you have felt the same way?

My brother in law and son of a chap I worked with both committed suicide and having seen the devastation left behind agree it's as selfish act. However as they are now longer here I had immense sympathy for both families and even now some 5 years on they both find it hard at times.

As to regards the locking of this thread , no no no , would be so wrong on so many counts which have been already covered.

LondonJonnyO wrote:Merc... I once got to Heathrow 20 minutes before a flight to Bahrain. BA checked me in at 1st class... security rushed me through by allowing me to use the new process bypassing the queue... and they arranged one of the golf carts to take me to the gate. The whole process took 5 minutes. All it takes is a little explanation.

Incidentally I was late for that flight not due to anything dodgy... It was purely that i was hammered.

I'm surprised LJ as I thought intoxicated folks weren't allowed on planes.

When you're paying to sit in business class on BA they let you get away with a hell of a lot! Besides... I fake sober exceptionally well I've been told.

Me too apparently

You'd have to get me drunk to fly on BA to Dubai given the state of the plane when we flew back in July, what a crate .

Try flying LOT. After that ryanair feels like a premier service!