Dress Codes, Tattoos, Golf Clubs in the dark ages

Just on the back of the Queenwood thread and how its developed thought I'd raise this to all.

As times change and the world moves forward I'm wondering are golf clubs standing still or even going backwards.

We now have a rebirth of spikeless golf shoes that can be worn off the course, yet many clubs won't allow you into the clubhouse wearing them!

I've played clubs where its acceptable to wear shorts on the course but is forbidden in the clubhouse! How can golfing attire that is suitable for play not be suitable for the clubhouse.

Many clubs still run by blazer brigades make you wear formal clothing just to set foot in their clubhouse that still has the decor done by old tom Morris dad!

Clubs that say you have to cover up your body art, yet are run by old naval men that probably have some of the crappest tats you'll ever see, as long as tattoos are not offensive they should be allowed to be on display, they cost enough but then they are personal so should be done for that reason not to show off.

On course we still wear trousers, polos and golfing shoes now this is something I do agree with as I cannot stand seeing denim, chavvy footy shirts and a pair of new balance trainers winging their way round the links, usually worn by some cider swilling ned called troy!

We often see some pro's trying to push the fashion boundaries I'm not talking of Poulters crap tartans or fowlers colour blindness, but of Ryan Moore who I remember seeing play riviera last year in a hoody! Not the normal chav type but a proper cardigan type with shirt and tie underneath.

I just wonder is it time golf takes a step out of the 19th century and at least into the latter part of the 20th if not the 21st century. Is it not time clubs scrapped dress codes in the bar area or at least stipulated what is acceptable on the course is therefore acceptable in the clubhouse?

Are the any other things golf needs to do to catch up with the world in your opinion or am I just chatting garbage, which is highly likely at this time of night and having sat in a beer garden most of the day supping Crabbies over ice, so refreshing on a day like today.

I was hoping this thread wouldn't happen, but since it has . . .

My default position on tattoos is that those who don them, especially where they are visible, have an inferiority complex and feel the need to tell everyone to 'look at me!'.

It'll be pierced conks and tongues in the Monthly Medals next.

I blame David Beckham - the c@#t!

Stop the world, I want to get off.

Since our club relaxed the dress code last year, You can now wear shorts, non scruffy denim and sensible reef type flip flops in the bar, the takings last year alone went up 30% during the summer.
It took along time to get some of the more stuck in their ways committee members off and since then the clubs come on leaps and bounds. Best of all we adopted a play from the tees that best suits your ability policy and everyone's much happier. Hopefully Merc can attest to that from his recent visit?

Yes, Matelot, it was great playing off the reds!

Thought you would have gone off junior blacks and shoot a gross 58. Hope you didn't fire at the 5th green instead of the 1st as I watched some bloke do today. I thought he had way to much club and he said he needed it to carry the pond to his mate. Couldn't correct him before he took his backswing!

Did you play off the whites in the end, or stick to the winter tees?

Matelot golfer wrote:Thought you would have gone off junior blacks and shoot a gross 58. Hope you didn't fire at the 5th green instead of the 1st as I watched some bloke do today. I thought he had way to much club and he said he needed it to carry the pond to his mate. Couldn't correct him before he took his backswing!

I don't think we went for any wrong pins - the 1st green is probably the most difficult to identify - we weren't sure where we were going.

I liked the 5th even though I think I bogeyed it in both rounds after being on the green in 2 on both occasions.

The walk from 5 to 6 was amazing the first time as we had no idea what the 6th was going to be like.

We played off the yellows.

I've mentioned this before, but the biggest gripe I have is clubs that forbid trainers in the clubhouse. My club has recently allowed clean, dry golf shoes in the clubhouse and they already allowed sandal type shoes yet I can't change into trainers after a round. To be honest I don't really see the need to allow golf shoes in the bar - it's easy enough to change shoes before going for a drink

Mercurio wrote:I was hoping this thread wouldn't happen, but since it has . . .

My default position on tattoos is that those who don them, especially where they are visible, have an inferiority complex and feel the need to tell everyone to 'look at me!'.

It'll be pierced conks and tongues in the Monthly Medals next.

I blame David Beckham - the c@#t!

Stop the world, I want to get off.

Are we only to create threads you hope to see now then merc.

As for people with tattos having an inferiority complex I can only say then you have no understanding whatsoever about why people have proper artwork done. Tattoos visible or not is a personal preference but for those of us that tats with meaning they are not a "look at me statement" and are easily concealed. Oh and I've never had a tattoo because of Beckham and nor will have others to whom they hold meaning. Yes some people are swayed by celebrity but that's life.

Yoi can also argue there are thousands of golfers that have inferiority complexes by wearing stupid Poulter type clothing or Colour getups that look like the owner must have been on LSD when they chose them. Its easy to state someone has a look at me complex without knowing the reason behind why they chose have tattoos or to wear the clothing they etc

If someone has a pierced nose or tongue so what, what has that got to do with their right to play, how they play and why should it restrict them from joining a club. During my years of service I had a tongue piercing because I wasn't allowed any visible piercings, I've since taken it out but only because I had to for football and forgot to put it back in once.

Tattoos, piercings, crap clothing choices do not make someone a look at me type and does not mean they aren't a nice person and imo doesn't give any golf club the right to refuse entry.

Back to the OP.

I think clubhouses should be totally relaxed about what indivuduals wear to move with the times, I'd agree no vest tops or footyu shirts, but often you will see someone wearing jeans, with a t-shirt and trainers that looks a damn site smarter than what a lot of golfers wear that is accepted in the clubhouse.

Maverick wrote:
Tattoos, piercings, crap clothing choices do not make someone a look at me type and does not mean they aren't a nice person and imo doesn't give any golf club the right to refuse entry.

Back to the OP.

I think clubhouses should be totally relaxed about what indivuduals wear to move with the times, I'd agree no vest tops or footyu shirts,

Some interesting points here. As always a difficult topic as the answer to "where do you draw the line?" is different for each person. For example, many old people find trainers distasteful yet walk around in hideous Clarks shoes. How can they be smarter than a pair of Hugo Boss trainers?

Maverick,
On the one hand you say that clubs should be totally relaxed, and then on the other hand you say no footy shirts or jeans on the course. So you are displaying a level of prejudice here. Arguably, someone wearing a footy shirt and jeans appears less offensive than someone with piercings and tatoos.

Out of interest, what part of your tongue has the piercing?

Ray I'm not trying to be prejudice at all, I think smart casual can refer to all forms or t-shirt, trainers, denims etc but football shirts are a different entity entirely, that said if someone was wearing one in a clubhouse it wouldn't bother me in the slightest and I'd make no judgement on it.

Totally agree about the trainers v's clarks shoes and sandals.

I had it done when I was 21, bog standard centre of the tongue, it swelled for a couple of days but after that totally fine, still feels odd not having it in now. No-one would even know I'd had it in as I didn't wear outrageous colour tongue bars, it took my mum 6 years to notice I had it.

If it's not prejudice you're showing, Mav, it's hypocrisy.

To be honest I dont care why anyone has a tattoo. If it looks nice and isnt offensive thats enough for me, quite frankly there is nothing more boring than someone explaining to you what their tattoos are meant to represent. At the end of the day that only matters to them and their close mates or whatever but you do seem to get a lot of tattoo bores about who want to tell you the reason, the time, the place, the cost blah blah blah. I get what Mav is saying about them supposedly being intensley personal but thats not really been my experience but Im sure plenty of people are like that as well.
But ultimately Ii you choose to decorate your body because you happen to like a particular image thats as good a reason as some sentimental or military stamping tattoo. Not every decoration in my house is because its sentimental, some of it I just wanted to put on my wall because it looks pretty!
Anyway should golf course/clubhouse etiquette be relaxed, absoloutly. Trainers and jeans in the clubhouse all the way as far as Im concerned.

Mercurio wrote:If it's not prejudice you're showing, Mav, it's hypocrisy.

Think you need look up the term mec! If I were a hypocrit I'd advocate no footy shirts then turn up wearing one!!!

Mind you no point arguing with you as always its only your opinion that matters. So enjoy your bubble.

Maverick wrote:

Mercurio wrote:If it's not prejudice you're showing, Mav, it's hypocrisy.

Think you need look up the term mec! If I were a hypocrit I'd advocate no footy shirts then turn up wearing one!!!

Mind you no point arguing with you as always its only your opinion that matters. So enjoy your bubble.

Come on, Mav, pick your lip up.

You are a hypocrite for saying clubs should be totally relaxed about attire then say but no footy top or vests.

That's not them being totally relaxed, is it?

Nothing wrong with my lip merc.
Is it or isn't it matter of of opinion, many pubs don't allow vest tops or footy tops these days but their classed as relaxed! Are they being hypocrits too!

As mentioned earlier, I have tat's on my arm, but wish I'd never had them done now. The reason is simple really, as it's to do with peoples perceptions about people who have them. I never wear a short sleaved shirt for work because of them, and would never wear a short sleaved shirt of any description for a party, BBQ or casual hospitality gig etc, unless it was friends and family.

I will however wear normal polo shirts on the course as I don't want to melt in good weather. I have no prejudices against anyone displaying tats.

Our club relaxed the rules on jeans in the clubhouse a couple of years ago. They said they had to be quality denims, whatever that means. No chance of policing this policy, because how can you tell the difference between a pair of Tesco turnups and a pair of Gucci's. So a silly rule which everyone who wears jeans ignores. Trainers are allowed and aslo tailored shorts. No cargo/combat shorts allowed and deffo no football shirts out on the course. The atmosphere is relaxed and some good craic to be had

Theres another funny one...tailored shorts. I have to be honest and say that I think they look awful especially on the older man, chopped down trousers basically. I much prefer the look of a pair of cargo shorts, but quite frankly am not remotely offended by anyone who chooses to where either type, its just personal taste.
As long as they arent a pair of Mo Johnston nut huggers (which I used to proudly wear when I played footie back in the day ) why should I care ?

I would say cargo/combats look much smarter than jeans but there you go.

In honesty i like it that there is a dress code at my club and that everyone should be dressed relatively smartly. However, i can find no justificatin other than that for the rule so maybe it's time it is ditched.

The problem is, as most have said, it's personal taste as to what looks smarter than what. If you ditch the dress code you really should do so completely. There's no point in saying 'you can wear t shirts but not these types of t shirts.....'. If so that's a dress code in itself so just keep the current one!

The T-Shirt debate is also a funny one, because as soon as Tiger started wearing shirts without collars, it took off in a big way. In colder weather I'll wear an Under Armour thermal underneath a sweather, I also have a short sleaved Nakashima collarless shirt, that looks good, but its almost a t-shirt except the neckline is a touch higher.

YET!!!! Ladies can wear anything it seems. They have cropped trousers that look like jeans because the demim look is in vogue. They wear sleavless shirts, garish fur effect jackets with hoods, they can even wear golf sandals so won't be long before we see them carrying handbag dogs and have them taking a dump in the bunkers

Yeah, the man/women dress code difference is a joke. Im for the unstuffy approcach the ladies adopt personally.

To me, totally relaxed means completely not bothered; therefore, what Mav said was hypocritical.

My view is that each club should set its own standards. I would never be a member at a club whose standards were not to my liking. If that means I have to pay more, then I'll gladly do that, but there shouldn't be an expectancy that clubs drop their standards to the lowest common denominator.

I think as Merc says if you dont like the rules of the club dont stay a member. That said Im not sure how often a radical change to the dress code is opened up at a lot of clubs and if it was what the outcome would be, all conjecture really and dependant on the membership of the club in question I guess.
Personally Id say it was a different denominator rather than the lowest one, but thats all a matter of taste and opinion really.

Ladies' dress code unstuffy? I'd beg to differ - but I think it must depend on where you are playing.

I have been faced with being forced to wear knee-length shorts (while some women wear those ghastly cut-offs which I hate because they basically look as though they couldn't get trousers to fit), yes we can wear sleeveless shirts but they have to have a collar - shirts without a collar have to have short sleeves but must not be low-cut, all shirts must be tucked in (even when it's sweltering), and I've never seen a club where denim is considered OK, even if it's supposedly "golf attire". The trouble is we have girls on the pro tours who wear very short skirts and shorts (no objection there) with untucked shirts revealing sometimes pierced belly buttons (OK as well as they are usually young, lithe and fit - and yes I am envious) but that's not appropriate wear for amateur clubs. Anyway, that's always been one of my big complaints and I think I'm

Doc - golf attire for ladies in the North of Engand seems very different to that "darn saaf"

Doc wrote:The T-Shirt debate is also a funny one, because as soon as Tiger started wearing shirts without collars, it took off in a big way. In colder weather I'll wear an Under Armour thermal underneath a sweather, I also have a short sleaved Nakashima collarless shirt, that looks good, but its almost a t-shirt except the neckline is a touch higher.

YET!!!! Ladies can wear anything it seems. They have cropped trousers that look like jeans because the demim look is in vogue. They wear sleavless shirts, garish fur effect jackets with hoods, they can even wear golf sandals so won't be long before we see them carrying handbag dogs and have them taking a dump in the bunkers

I understand where you're coming from Doc, but saying that lady members will take a dump in the bunkers because their dress code is relaxed is taking it a bit too far

raycastleunited wrote:

Doc wrote:The T-Shirt debate is also a funny one, because as soon as Tiger started wearing shirts without collars, it took off in a big way. In colder weather I'll wear an Under Armour thermal underneath a sweather, I also have a short sleaved Nakashima collarless shirt, that looks good, but its almost a t-shirt except the neckline is a touch higher.

YET!!!! Ladies can wear anything it seems. They have cropped trousers that look like jeans because the demim look is in vogue. They wear sleavless shirts, garish fur effect jackets with hoods, they can even wear golf sandals so won't be long before we see them carrying handbag dogs and have them taking a dump in the bunkers

I understand where you're coming from Doc, but saying that lady members will take a dump in the bunkers because their dress code is relaxed is taking it a bit too far

I'd be in favour of no dress code whatsoever be it in the bar or on the course. It just adds to the whole golf is for old men stereotype.

I'm a member of two courses; one of which is relaxed in terms of dress code (does exist but you can get away with most things except jeans/footy shirts on the course) and the other is quite strict. As I no longer qualify as a junior member I'll be leaving one at the end of this month, and it'll be the one full of stuffy old men who don't accept you as part of their 'gang' which also has a very strict dress code as opposed to the one where you're made to feel welcome.

LP the denim stuff I spoke about is meant to look like denim but isn't if you get my drift. If it looks like denim, then sureley it should be treated like denim. The ladies dress code between pro and am status I agree needs to be looked at. Why should pro ladies be able to look like pro's, when am ladies can't?

Ive seen Justin Rose play in that same isnt denim looks like denim style of fabric for his trousers. Have to say it looked pretty silly really, neither one thing or the other.
To me it kind of says an awful lot about golf that you have to have these kind of conversations and all sorts of levels of silliness as a constant ongoing thing.
To me its the stuffiest sport I have ever played by a country mile, far too many protocols and regulations, dont do this, dont say that, wear this, tuck your shirt in, no caps in the clubhouse, and on and on and on and on.
Anyone who is suprised that kids would usually rather be doing something else must be bonkers.

Diggers - for once I completely agree with you

I can only assume I must be completely mistaken then Ladyputt
Only joking, clearly Im never mistaken......

For then traditionalists, collarless shirts were quite acceptable when they were in fasion in the 1920's.
Mr Lu, Jacklin, Billy Casper and Ray Floyd wore turtle neck shirts in the late 1960's. I had a couple and no one told me that they were unacceptable dress code, even Muirfield.

So when traditionalists start harping on mention Tackitty Boots, collarless shirts and tweed suits.

Doon - you're back. How was the holiday?

Do those people who want to abolish dress codes think nightclubs should do the same?

Personally I wouldn't go to a night club with a dress code anymore through choice. Pretty much any club in the west end will let you in wearing jeans and trainers, it's actually more the chavvy provincial ones that have a code. I give them a wide berth anyway.

Do those people who want to abolish dress codes think nightclubs should do the same

Yes I think they should.

Personally I wouldn't go to a night club with a dress code anymore through choice. Pretty much any club in the west end will let you in wearing jeans and trainers, it's actually more the chavvy provincial ones that have a code. I give them a wide berth anyway.

Totally my outlook to, all good nightspots now are relaxed in the attire you can wear, the ones that insist on dress codes are full of chavs in burberry and aquascutum checked gear. Shame because they have some good gear those brands but the chavs flood the place with the over the top check!

Surely you boys are too old for nightclubs anyway, I leave them well alone for the likes of Mac to try it on with the dolled up 17 year olds trying to pass for 21.

Hi Oldshanker

Still to go on Hols. Mind you it is bound to rain after all this wonderful weather we have had up hear.
I have kept off v2 as I did not like the attitude of a few 'know all expert posters' who seemed to be dominating the site.
Shame as I liked hearing from the real experts like you and Mav('')

Hi Doon, are you referring to the 'darkside' or this place? If this place, that's sad to hear

Yea, another senior moment. I meant v3!.

I felt that the site was becoming a golf blog version of 'The Office'.

I even had pictures in my mind who Steven Merchant, Ricky Gervais etc were.

Ha, I assume LP is Lucy Davis?

At least we know who our own Rab C Nesbit is

As there are only two women posting on here you can take your pick.

Was Rab in The Office, I must have missed that episode.

Dont' forget Mary, Doon

Whatever happened to Gael? She's disappeared of late.

The last thread she posted on was the one where she chastised Davie for daring to comment on golf with a handicap such as his (and indeed mine). Made a bit of a fool of herself in truth and hasn't been back.

No doubt she's signed up with www.golfchatforeliteplayerspreferablywomenonly.co.uk

One of the reasons I dropped off was the reaction of a few' expert' posters on here towards Gael and women golfers in general.
I don't think there were too many posters with Gael's international experience on this board.
She did not suffer fools gladly which I emphasised with and I thought her posts were knowledgable.

Doon, i find it interesting that it was the 'expert' posters response TO Gael that upset you, considering it was Gael who was the one saying Davie was not a good enough golfer to comment.

If it was the reaction to Gael's comment that upset you, i must assume i was one of those 'experts' who upset you. I take slight offence if you think i have any negative views on women golfers in general as i have never made a comment that would give anyone that view.

In honesty, i rarely found anything Gael said to be particularly knowledgable but that's just my view. In contrast i did find almost everything she said to be rude and self important.

Whether she suffers fools gladly or not, and whether she is indeed knowledgable or not, is not a good enough reason to be rude and condescending. If she feels like she only wants to be a poster here if she can be rude without others repsonding in turn then good riddance

I think it's a bit childish of her to flounce off in a cream puff though.

We used to have a right old ding dong so Davie must have really upset her, did he drop the "Grotbags" bomb?

It wasn't the time for compliments