Rugby 6 Nations

First topic message reminder :

Don't know if any of the rest of you are Rugby fans and if you entered the predictions contest for the World Cup last year on v2 - but the same site (SportGuru) has launched a predictions comp for this year's 6N Championship

Don't know if there will be any interest but I've set up a Golf Chat league if anyone fancies a go at it

The pool name to join is Golf Chat and the code is goalseal - I think you can search for either of those and it will take you to the page to add yourself to our pool!

For two teams to make the same mistake against the english in consecutive weeks ... well, I would call that lucky but then I have come to expect Davie to never agree with anything I say.

I have my own opinions regardless of what or WHO says otherwise. It's a little conceited to think that I'm only saying something to contradict you or anyone else

I was spitting feathers at Italy's tries.

The first one was Keystone Kops and the second was from an extremely poor decision from Foden. With England leading and the clock ran down, the ball should have been launched to touch.

At 15-6, I was sure Italy would win, so I'm delighted with the win.

Davie wrote:I wonder if the Italian fly half will now retire from international rugby (c.f. Parkes)

Not sure why the charge down tries are considered "jammy" - they are either good chasing-down of poor kicking - but nothing lucky about them.

Still, a good result for England and a good result for Scotland too - had Italy won today, Scots would be nailed on for the wooden spoon

Davie you've answered your own question over the jammyness... those should have been bread and butter clearances to a fly half. They were poorly executed so how can you fail to see the obvious good fortune involved? How often do you expect to have those happen at this level? Can you remember the last time England score from ONE (never mind two in a row) of those before this past two weeks? They happen, but not regularly... it is the a rugby equivalent of an own goal.

The result made no difference to Scotland as we will still need to beat Italy, which is more than doable if we start converting opportunities. Fortunately you are now in a position where you can make jibes about the wooden spoon despite having played quite very poorly for two matches, a couple of lucky breaks have spared you from such a dog fight. If you can't see that, then perhaps it will be clearer when you get a bit of hammering against a side that know how to make the most of their territory and possession. England could easily have been whitewashed this year if it wasn't for those two OGs. I give England no chance against any of the other sides they have to play, Ireland are your best chance as they don't look as sharp without BOD.

The good thing is England can only improve as the more inexperienced players grow into the side. Sadly, Andy Robinson is a bit scared to have a look at our more exciting backs like Stuart Hogg and Matt Scott and it is really stifling our progress, not to mention rewarding failure and mediocrity. Chris Cusiter, Lee Jones and Nick De Luca were the only backs in good form to get selected last week, this week we can add Laidlaw to that but there are two Lamonts and Evans brother who are living off past 'glories', and by glories I mean they have scored a handful of tries before. In my opinion we should really be looking to sort out the 10/12 axis at long last as this is precisely where our problem lie. Parks, Morrison and Sean Lamont do not have the answers there and I am very happy that Parks had the integrity to call it a day on his own terms (even if it was a week too late in my eyes).

I mentioned the possibility of the wooden spoon for Scotland Red, it wasn't meant as a jibe , but looking at the fixtures it was to me a realistic possibility. After seeing Italy yesterday I think it's even more likely. It's possible France could go AWOL at Murrayfield but unlikely.
And you are right, England could and maybe should have lost both games. They should be big underdogs in the next 3 games. But they do have Tuigali and Lawes to come back and they are two of the guys who could potentially be very good. Having Flood back as an option is also a big plus.
Also be interesting to see if Robshaw stays as skipper , I think he was done OK but the take out off the ball yesterday was poor and sparked a few poor mistakes for penalties which were not seen in Scotland.And if Wood cones back England have another very good player and possible skipper.
So a lot of ifs and maybes. Be good to see how England fare at home though, it does make a big difference.

I don't think Tuilagi and Lawes will add much to England just now, Botha has looked good and holds just as much physical presence as Lawes. Tuilagi will offer a bit more of a crash ball option than Barrit, but he won't concern Rougerie or Davies. Ireland on the other hand have some weakness in wider areas and he could exploit that. The problem is getting the ball wide enough for him to make the most of it.

Robshaw has equipped himself well, likes a bit of argie bargie.... never did MJ any harm! I think Wood will get the nod as Captain when he comes back, but Croft may make way. I think Croft has been found out, he has plenty of pace but lacks a bit of grunt. He is a terrific impact sub to have though and in some games will be the right option ahead of Robshaw (they look like they could be brothers those two). I'd like to see more of Morgan at 8, Dowson doesn't offer much go forward ball and there is a reason he has got 30 without a cap IMO... he is just good, but not necessarily international quality.

I've read talk of Robshaw being pushed to 8, not sure about this. Haskell did ok when he was tried there. Is ok the answer though? I don't see any other side in the 6N settling for ok... Parisse, Heaslip, Faletau, Denton, Hardinodique/Piccamoles (greedy French) are all specialist 8s and highly rated too.

Yeah, can't disagree with a lot of that , but rugby is a 22 man game now and there is no way that having Lawes, Flood and Tuigali won't strengthen the squad.
That said just read Stuart Barnes in the Times who was very damning of the new regime and said little has changed. Now I can't stand Barnes, huge ego and a massive chip on his shoulder about not winning a 1000 caps, but I do think he is right on this occasion.
But until England have a home match, hopefully on a decent day , it's hard to tell.

Is Haskell injured or was he one of the scraficial lambs after the world cup?

Davie wrote:Is Haskell injured or was he one of the scraficial lambs after the world cup?

On Sabbatical and unavailable for selection, playing in Japan and then the upcoming Super 16 Season down under. Returning to Wasps in 12-18 months time.

Ah yes I'd heard he was going abroad but didn't realize it had started

diggers wrote:
That said just read Stuart Barnes in the Times who was very damning of the new regime and said little has changed.

I think he is being quite unfair. Several areas have been stripped back, so they are starting again and there are one or two players missing. The back line isn't firing, but Flood would be at fly half if fit and Farrell is a better option than just about anyone else at 12. The forwards aren't gaining good territory either so it's hard to be too critical at this stage, but I can see how one might say the warning signs are there.

Davie wrote:I have my own opinions regardless of what or WHO says otherwise. It's a little conceited to think that I'm only saying something to contradict you or anyone else

By all means remain in denial. I would expect nothing less from you. Think on this though: it's one thing to disagree with another poster's comments occasionally or even often but, every ... single ... time? Now that's downright creepy and this is why I stopped responding to your posts on the other site.

As I said. Conceited.

I comment on pretty much every thread here whether you post on it or not

You seem to be the only one who thinks I'm following them around though

Says more about you than me

Same crap as always, fumble within two metres! I much prefer it when we go for drop goals when in the 22 after a few phases of not making any headway... at least come away with something.

Must admit this Wales performance is giving me a bit of hope for when they come to Twickenham, though they are missing a few really key players.

This is why we shouldn't keep trying to run things until we lose the ball, we could really have been 9-3 up by half time if we had been a bit more sensible. Instead of being instantly 10-3 down now, we'd only be 10-9 down. The gap increases the pressure on us to score tries... which we can't seem to do.

Now that is one very silly yellow card. Game over.

A lot of runners get taken out and it goes unpunished.... how can you hope to get away with taking the runner out when you blatantly tackle him off the ball? What a muppet!

The consequences of that first yellow have snowballed into a 2nd yellow, absolutely crazy.

Davie wrote:As I said. Conceited.

I comment on pretty much every thread here whether you post on it or not

You seem to be the only one who thinks I'm following them around though

That's not what I said. I'm concerned only with how you respond to my posts which is always negatively.

The French referee [for Davie] did not really do Scotland any favours, Both yellows were well deserved but countless Welsh offsides in the first half went unpunished.
Great game and well played Wales, good effort by Scotland. The non try by Hogg was a shame and conversions of the two late penalties that they chose to run would have made the score a bit more balanced.

Aye Doon ... so much for the Auld Alliance.

I'm beginning to hate this game!

Doon the Water wrote: conversions of the two late penalties that they chose to run would have made the score a bit more balanced.

Add that to the ineffective huffing and puffing in the Welsh 22 on several occasions in the first half, they had at least 2 great drop goal opportunities to go in 9-3 at half time. They really need to be smarter with their use of territory. Yes, we want to see some tries but if they don't come your way after 3 or 4 attempts inside their 22 and you are in a good position to pop one over, then that is what we should be doing. The opposition need to then kick the ball back to you and you can start looking for tries again whilst keeping the scoreboard ticking over. How can a team as experienced as we are be guilty of such naivety each and every year?

Wales were lucky that Scotland were given two yellow cards.

Have I got this "lucky" thing right yet?

Davie wrote:Wales were lucky that Scotland were given two yellow cards.

Have I got this "lucky" thing right yet?

Nope... they were lucky the ball didn't bounce kindly for Laidlaw to score a second try following his chip and run

I thought Laidlaw's try was cleverly contrived. His repeated appeals to the ref seemed to distract the defending welshman enabling him to slide the ball over the line?

Dan Parks thinks Scotland can win thier next three games.
Is that because he has retired then('')

Dementia has set in early!

Cracking match, can't believe we ever doubted Farrell what a star, what a hit that was in the last 5 mins. Think he paid the price with a damaged shoulder though. Croft looking like the player he was on the Lions tour. Happy days.

Interesting - Now Wales have a final match against a pi**ed off French team who have nothing to lose and England play a leaderless Ireland.

The team that was always going to be difficult to beat and would win 'ugly,' have now realised they can attack as well! Actually, with a little bit of luck, it could be England going for a 'Grand Slam' and not Wales. Really didn't think I would be saying that this year.

And yet Oldshanker it's odds on that Lancaster won't get the job full time. Stupid RFU......

I really hope Lancaster gets the job - he has looked very good with his management in this 6N.

Great win in Paris today. Far too many penalties given away (which surprises me for a Lancaster-led side) but the young Lions came of age today.

What odds England to beat Ireland and France to beat Wales?

I fancy Wales to win , they are a very good side, but it could be a corker of a match.
First time England have won 3 away games in the 6 nations, be odd if they lost both hone games.

I think Lancaster has done enough to be given a chance.

I also think that Wales might suffer a backlash from the French and they could be soundly beaten by a rampant French team looking to bounce back.

I think you are in danger of rose coloured spectacles Davie. Yes England were solid today, but the French team was not firing on 3 let alone 4 cylinders. Most of the penalties were given away stupidly and really need to be controlled.

Came of age - I think not - moved on to a level of greater self belief - maybe.

A young team beating one of the two tournament favourites on their home turf? If that's rose coloured spectacles, then yes I plead guilty

Yes they are a young team and yes they have a great deal of promise, but please do not go down the redtop road and start talking about them as 'the next big thing'.

They beat an out of sorts French team that should have been beaten by Ireland, and are so up and down that this time last year, they were beaten by Italy!

Wales were always the favourites for this season, France was only talked about in the same breath, because its France and just when you don't expect it, they will blast all and sundry. If England continue to develop however and Stuart Lancaster is given as many chances as his predecessor had, next season should be very interesting!

Agree it would be silly to go over the top, but France haven't lost at home for 4 years and the Irish didn't beat them.....just the same way the English didn't beat the Welsh. Close doesn't really matter.
So I think a bit of celebration is in order , especially if Lancaster gets the job full time.

England took their chances well, they were not quite handed to them like the two Hodgson tries in their first two games but it must be said Beauxis had a stinker when kicking from hand, the French got their game plan all wrong in the first half and England made them pay.

Sad news about Tom Rees being forced to retire, he was the only traditional 7 England had at their disposal but with the amount of injuries he has had it won't be a huge miss as they have never been able to field him with any regularity.

RIP Mervyn 'Merve the Swerve' Davies.

One of the best number 8's that have played for Wales and the Lions. An inspirational captain and apparently a very nice gentleman as well.

Surprisingly as a dyed in the wool English supporter, I was genuinely upset when his career was tragically cut short by injury. He was an exciting, driving player to watch and I for one did not get to see my fill.

I think you are spot on there OS - a Welsh player that even English fans could admire

Do I get a prize for calling the wooden spoon "winner" after the first game ?

Well done the taffs, best sidon this year won. Glad the French actually showed for the second half to make them earn it.

There was a great deal of passion at the millenium stadium today, all of it celt in nature. Mind you, I think that after the sad news, the Welsh team would have preferred to open a vein in each arm rather than lose.

They are the best side however in the 6 nations, but their upcoming trip to the Southern hemisphere may burst the balloon a bit. I will be watching with interest.

Right, its Paddys day, lets ruin the celebrations.

oldshanker wrote:

Right, its Paddys day, lets ruin the celebrations.

He, he, he evil laugh smilie needed

oldshanker wrote:There was a great deal of passion at the millenium stadium today, all of it celt in nature. Mind you, I think that after the sad news, the Welsh team would have preferred to open a vein in each arm rather than lose.

They are the best side however in the 6 nations, but their upcoming trip to the Southern hemisphere may burst the balloon a bit. I will be watching with interest.

Right, its Paddys day, lets ruin the celebrations.

Not much Celtic passion in that Irish pack, they got absolutely smashed up front.
I've really enjoyed this 6 nations, normally I think it's all a bit scrappy and well , northern hemispheresque, for my liking. But even though that was still about the games have been really enjoyable on the whole.
It's strange to think England won the championship last year but I'm far happier about the future this year coming second.
Please, please , please give Lancaster the job.

diggers wrote:

oldshanker wrote:There was a great deal of passion at the millenium stadium today, all of it celt in nature. Mind you, I think that after the sad news, the Welsh team would have preferred to open a vein in each arm rather than lose.

They are the best side however in the 6 nations, but their upcoming trip to the Southern hemisphere may burst the balloon a bit. I will be watching with interest.

Right, its Paddys day, lets ruin the celebrations.

Not much Celtic passion in that Irish pack, they got absolutely smashed up front.
I've really enjoyed this 6 nations, normally I think it's all a bit scrappy and well , northern hemispheresque, for my liking. But even though that was still about the games have been really enjoyable on the whole.
It's strange to think England won the championship last year but I'm far happier about the future this year coming second.
Please, please , please give Lancaster the job.

Yep Digs, I agree with all that. Still not sure about Owen Farrell being ready to step up to the mark yet. His place kicking is very good, kicking from the hand not quite so good, distribution and running with the ball I think is only average. All in all, he is competent, but not what you would call exciting and all the best stand offs can, when required, inject raw pace and penetration. He's just a bit pedestrian for me at the moment, but it has to be said, he could grow into the position.

The big thing I could see this year is a strong sense of pride and 'team'.

Yeah Farrell isnt exhilarating but he does the basics very well indeed for a kid and his defence is great. Wilkinson wasn't exciting but in 2003 he was rated easily a the best player in the world, but it's good to have a creative centre like Catt or Greenwood to help create and England currently don't have that.
Good to see Youngs looking hungry and cocky again as he adds that something extra at his best, but shocking when playing poorly, but again still a kid. All said and done its looking pretty good.

True, but Wilkinsons distribution was flat and fast and his defence was first rate (although it was also his downfall). I have said before that I prefer one battering ram centre and a silky runner as a foil, but because every centre is now bulking up like crazy, that might not happen.

With luck, England will have learnt a lesson regarding delaying tactics by the scrum half, because when Youngs came on and started playing with some urgency, England looked a lot more threatening. Mind you if he starts letting the ball bobble through his legs like before, then its the scrapheap for him. Fast and flat as well please Mr Youngs.

I cannot believe how much Dan Cole has matured as well this year. Last year he was hopelessly out classed and looked slow and weak. This year its like his bigger, stronger more experienced brother has taken his place, same with Alex Corbisiero and wasn't that Dylan Hartley that I saw kick from hand!!! This is growing into a very good front row indeed and it was good to see the backs congratulating the pack on regular occasions.

Right at the start of this 6 nations I said I thought England would be a difficult team to beat, but I did not expect them to 'gel' quite so quickly. Well done Mr Lancaster!

Yes, the pack is looking very good for a young unit and still has possibly the two most exciting forwards in Lawes and Wood to come back into the equation. And you need a few good subs these days.
Whatever the changes in the modern game the pack is still a massive part of it do if I was Irish if be a bit troubled by yesterday.

Still think they were "rose coloured spectacles" OS?