Ryder Cup

As the next Ryder Cup is going to be a non event do you think that we should ask the USA to consider enlarging thier team to include North and South America?

A bit of satire there, Doon?

Interesting point Doon.

One that could help add to the Ryder cup, after all its USA v Europe for the RC and USA v ROW for the Presidents cup.

Surely a better balance would The Americas v Europe or Asia v The Americas.

Would give both competitions more flavour and balance and would be a better spectacle than seeing pretty much the same names wheeled out year on year with the only odd change once every so often.

The problem is that in regard to team sport there is no solidarity when it comes to continents or larger made up teams, like the ROW team in the Presidents Cup. Its not like the rest of theworld gets fired up for the event, they arent interested.
The only example that works is Europe in the RC, which as far as I can see works on the basis that GB and Ireland are so desperate to beat the Yanks they took whatever help they could get. I dont think that any other country in Europe has anything like the passion for the RC that exists over here.
You just get to the stage where you are making up rivalries that in a sporting sense, or indeed any sense really, havent existed.
Basically its just marketing.

I've thought for a while that a three team event could work. Europe, USA and the Rest of the World.

Same format as the Ryder Cup. For the first two days each team selects two pairs as "A" and "B". The As and Bs of each team are drawn to produce six matches for each round. Example - first 2 matches Europe v USA, next two matches Europe v ROW and last 2 matches USA v ROW. Same idea for the singles.

The winning post of 14.5 points will not be fixed but as each round progresses each team can see where they stand.

The event would need 1 hours extra daylight on Day 1 and 2 (2 extra matches in the morning, two extra matches in the afternoon so 1 hour in total assuming 15 minutes between each game) so when the match is in the Europe it would have to be brought forweard about 1 month.

A chance of getting all the best players together playing matchplay in team format.

The USA team could well be full of players we've not heard of at this rate. As things look at present their team is going to be full of kids a couple of years out of the collegiate system - rookies

Doc wrote:The USA team could well be full of players we've not heard of at this rate. As things look at present their team is going to be full of kids a couple of years out of the collegiate system - rookies

THats not a bad thing though is it. It will add some freshness to a competition that imo is getting a little stale watching the same players all the time. I'd rather watch upcoming players like Stanley, CAuley, Fowler with the addition of Bubba, DJ going for it than watch Mickelson, Woods et al that are winding down their careers and really show no great interest in the event.

Hopefully the European team will also have a younger fresher look this year because even though we won at Celtic Manner the players with the exception of a few really don't fuel the passion how they used to.

Well it looks like fattymac is making his way back, but we'll be without Casey again and even Harrington this time. But a bonus of Sergio if he carries on playing like he is at the moment. Nice to see that Rock could make it, but on the downside again will Fisher get it together in time? it all seems up in the air at the minute as the Italian contingent seem to have slipped of a cliff, even young Manassero. Westwood, Donald and kaymer plus Rory seem to be the only shoe-ins yet, with a whole bunch of young kids and senior players trying to sort themselves out.

Anyone any idea about what stage of the season we'll get a better picture of the likely team.

A serious thought/question regarding Gary Wolstenhome. Obviously never turned pro even though he was consistently the best amatuer around. I believe he had many offers of turning pro, but must have a half decent job, especially if it allowed him to play plenty of golf. He is obviously a master of the team game with much sucess, but was picking him for a RC slot as a captains pick allowed, or never even on the agenda when he was at his best? Last time I saw anything of him was on the seniors tour in Australia.

BAsed on his current lack of form and lack of points he will accumulate if his current play continues I would not like to see Kaymer in the RC team, and his record last time out was not inspiring.

I'd much rather see the likes of Sergio, Poulter with the passion and a few new young guns alongside Luke Donald and Lee Westwood.

diggers wrote:The problem is that in regard to team sport there is no solidarity when it comes to continents or larger made up teams, like the ROW team in the Presidents Cup. Its not like the rest of theworld gets fired up for the event, they arent interested.
The only example that works is Europe in the RC, which as far as I can see works on the basis that GB and Ireland are so desperate to beat the Yanks they took whatever help they could get. I dont think that any other country in Europe has anything like the passion for the RC that exists over here.
You just get to the stage where you are making up rivalries that in a sporting sense, or indeed any sense really, havent existed.
Basically its just marketing.

There's a pretty decent competitive spirit between the USPGA Tour and the European Tour.
So I don't think they have really just made up a rivalry. It really began once Faldo, Seve, Lyle, Langer, Woosnam etc started making a mark for Europe in world golf. Prior to that when it was just UK and the tatty munchers V USA it had about as much interest as the Presidents Cup.
It's a bit different now on both sides of the Atlantic.

cue predictable curmudgeonly disagreement from our own resident yankophile Victor Meldrew.

Interesting comment 'over the road' re Lawrie's form.

He's desperate to get in the Ryder Cup to stuff DL3's Carnoustie comment down his throat.

I would like to see him playing first out in the singles.

I think the Ryder Cup has Morph'd into a battle between the two Tours.

I can't believe DL3's comment bothered Lawrie THAT much - sure it was bound to cause a bad taste at the time but it was 13(?) years ago now!

I'm sure Lawrie has far more class than to still hold a grudge after all this time

If you read my post I said that it works in the RC (sort of), what Im also saying is that from the supporters/followers/fans (whatever you choose to call them) perspective most of the interest for the RC comes from these shores. Its hardly a massive deal in Italy, France or Germany in the same way it is here.
It certainly does not work from a supporters sense for the ROW team in the Presidents Cup. Why should a South African have any real desire to be cheering on an Australian just because someone comes up with the concept of a competition like the Presidents Cup.
You can go around making up teams that might be a good match for each other but why should that mean the people who follow the sport in question have any affinity for the teams created ?
Quite what any of my views on this subject have with being a yankophile im not really sure but if it makes you feel better saying it then fill your boots.

Why not have an international league, with Europe, USA, Asiatic, and the Rest of the World, played on a home and away basis over 2years???

("I do have some dumb ideas at times")

It really is a battle of the tours now rather than a match between continents.

DL3's comment was typical of any yank that loses out, and Lawrie regardless of time passed has every right to feel a touch of wanting to shove it down his throat.

Whether it matters to certain individual countries or not (though i'd say spain are every bit as up for beating the yanks as us) it matters to the ET players and they want to show the PGA tour who is better.

Diggers, how do you know that? It was pretty well supported when at Valderamma, in fact that was one of the best RC's we've had. Were you walking round inspecting peoples passports for their nationality and constructing a supporter demographic?

Of course you are going to get predominantly British fans because A)most of the home events happen here and B) a fair proportion of the players are from these shores.

I regularly read the sports pages in Norwegian papers, and despite them having NO players in Ryder Cup history, it was very well reported. I'm sure the likes of Germany, Sweden, Spain and Denmark cover it in much greater detail and that there are a considerable number of fans from there, so you can't say with any certainty that it isn't a big deal there, because you haven't even bothered to find out, you just assume it isn't.

Every rivalry has to begin somewhere. Even if you think it's tenuous.

Am I right in thinking that a couple of RC comps' back, there was an appeal from one of the Scandinavian players as to why he wasn't picked. Did it move the date of the team anouncement back a week, and was it Thomas Bjorn?

Yes, you are completely right, the people of France and Italy are obsessed with the RC, just as much as they are over here. And you call Woods dumb.
Why do rivalrys have to begin somewhere. Because TV executives think its a good idea ?

I'm not saying they are obsessed Diggers, I'm just saying it is probably a bigger event for them than you give it credit for. After all you haven't even checked have you?
It's big enough for them to contest the award of an RC and be awarded it for 2018, so I think it's going to generate interest don't you?

Christ, I can imagine your wife calling you for dinner, "Sorry Margaret, I'll be over in a minute, someone on the internet is WRONG!!!!"

Many rivalries existed well before TV.

Super, just to take today as an example. Ive made a couple of comments on here and you have come back straight at both of them picking an argument........whilst then going on to say Im the one picking an argument with you and saying everything you say is wrong.
I refer back to my comment earlier in the day, you seriously need help.

Diggers, I've only said so because your first comment was hypocritical and your second was without any base at all.

Ban the ryder cup as all it provides is an excuse for enforced patrotism to a psuedo country like Europe and another to wheel out that gluebait Alliss to talk about when he was hitting balls for a living prior to realising he was crap.

super_realist wrote:Diggers, I've only said so because your first comment was hypocritical and your second was without any base at all.

Whatever gets you through the day.

LondonJonnyO wrote:Ban the ryder cup as all it provides is an excuse for enforced patrotism to a psuedo country like Europe and another to wheel out that gluebait Alliss to talk about when he was hitting balls for a living prior to realising he was crap.

Not a fan of Peter's quaint and old-fashioned little stories then LJ?

At least Sky have the RC coverage now so we don't have to listen to Alliss

You don't think that Sky will be offering him multi-millions to transfer over then Davie?

Not sure how it can be a battle of the tours...almost half of the European team will be members of the PGA tour.

The ryder cup is certainly not broken and does not need fixing. If there was one thing I would change about it is move it earlier in the year to try to avoid weather problems in Ireland and Wales.

When I lived in Germany there was a huge amount of press regarding the Ryder Cup and how they hoped for the next great German hope competing now Langers playing days in the competition were declining.

Personally I'd rather see the RC go into mainlaned Europe more often, so far it's been to Spain, Ireland and the rest of the time in the UK. That hardly gives other European nations the chance to feel involved.

France are hosting soon as we know, but Scandinavia produces a hell of a lot of golfers yet never given a sniff at hosting, or the Germans being Uber organised could run a superb event. Only once these countries start hosting it can anyone say for sure how much it matters to them.

Could the Scandanavians host it at that time of year?

Davie, many parts of Scandinavia are at a much lower latitude than Gleneagles.
There's a belief that Scandinavia is bloody freezing all year round, but it's far warmer than the UK for most of the summer months.

Yes but the RC isn't held in summer months. I know parts are further south than Gleneagles, but parts aren't. Also that's largely irrelevant as weather patterns follow a lot more than just latitude.

New York is (I believe) similar latitude to Barcelona yet you wouldn't compare their respective weather in December

The thing is why does the Ryder cup have to be rigid in being played in october! There is no reason other than Dim Finchems NaffEx cup that it couldn't be played for example at the end of August/beginning of September. Its a Bi Yearly event so mving the schedule to suit would not be an issue.

I accept that, Mav - but the point is that's when it is. I can't see Finchem changing it, hence my question of whether Scandinavia could host it at that time.

I'm not questioning whether they deserve it or not - it's whether it's practical under current conditions and dates

Course they do, but it tends to be colder the more northern you are within a maritime climate.
Autumnal weather around Ryder Cup time in Scandinavia is not much different from the UK so I see no reason not to hold it there.

The Scandanavian Masters (I believe the only ET fixture in Scandanavia) is played just North of Stockholm. Stockholm is fractionally further North than John O'Groats. Perhaps it would have to be somewhere in Denmark

I think the RC calender needs bringing forward and Scandinavia deserve to host it, as they've provided a steady stream of top golfers as part of our team. Celtic Manor in October was almost a wash out and we were lucky to see it finish in the correct way, another delay would have seen a contrived finish, which nobody wants to see. Sod Finchem he needs to rorganise the silly pre end of season circus a bit. we need to to be able to squeeze one week into the summer somewhere, how hard can that be

Finchem, like Blatter needs shot.

The thing is New York has hosted the RC and likely at somepoint will again and the climate there is questionable at that time of year.

The RC should be bigger than Dim Finchem and should be brought back into the main part of the season and then would get more following instead of people being over golfed by the end of it.

Team so far on 2012 standings:

Rock
Lawrie
Rory
Hanson P
Colsaerts
Bjorn
Elson
GMac
Olazabal
Sergio

With obviously Luke, Lee as shoe-ins, with Kaymer, Poulter, Rose, Fisher, Wood etc, etc and the rest needing to get started. Yes early days but a slow start from some of our big guns may lead to nervy times.

Denmark seems the most obvious Scadinavian country to host the RC

It's one of the world's biggest events, there is no way some chump like finchem should be able to dictate.

Look how long it took for the RC in Europe to be played in Spain, and only then after an outcry from fans and the tour, of course with a very vocal Spanish contingent leading.

So the RC calender is fixed until?

Why don't they just arrange it for when they see fit and Finchem can spin?

2012 Medinah - Too late hotels and packages booked.

2014 Gleneagles - Plenty of time to rearrange dates

2016 Hazeltine - Ditto

2018 TBA - Easy to re-jig

2020 Whistling Straits

2014, appaling choice of venue imo.

2018 I thought that had been decided as Paris National

It was although Diggers has since phoned them up and told them that the French don't care a jot about Ryder Cup, so they've cancelled it and it's now being played overthe Victor Meldrew (Over the) Hills course.

super_realist wrote:It was although Diggers has since phoned them up and told them that the French don't care a jot about Ryder Cup, so they've cancelled it and it's now being played overthe Victor Meldrew (Over the) Hills course.

Paris National is actually a great place to hold it and i'd love to see some form of natural disaster affer Gleneagles moving the RC to somewhere like Crans for example

Crans sur Sierre would be superb.

super_realist wrote:Crans sur Sierre would be superb.

And offers great viewing and superb layout for matchplay which Gleneagles does not

why is Denmark the most obvious choice in Scandanavia? i would have thought the venue of the Scandanavian masters in Sweden would have been ideal. is there a regular European tour stop in Denmark at the moment?