Is It Easier In Frost?

This a serious question, because on Saturday I played early doors in frost and new winter greens. I've mentioned on another thread that my new Miura's were not performing well, but have only had them out a couple of times. I'm actually back with my fitter on Thursday, so he can have a look, but I've also had some serious personal problems over xmas and maybe this resulted in me not getting on with the Miura's? Anyway, Saturday in the frost, I managed to hit every iron sweet as a nut. Everything came off the middle and it felt awesome, although some were 15 feet left of target, but from 150 yards out was pleased. I've had some great rounds where i've scored low and well under handicap in the past, but this was not one of them. I still struggled with my 3-wood and hybrids, and the winter greens on the front 9 were shyte. But hitting evry iron perfectly was a first for me and have to say it was a great feeling. I've scored low in the past but still had the odd scuffed or fat iron and the odd shank thrown in, but not this time.

I'm not one for thinking that I've now sorted out my game, or expect to ever think I'll do this all the time. So was Saturday a freak day? Or is it actually easier to hit nice irons in the frost, due to the lube assistance.

The guy I played with yesterday hit a lot of fat shots. I could clearly hear the clonk of his club hitting the frozen ground before the ball on quite a few shots, but he got away with it every time... in fact he made 3 birdies.

So I tend to feel that, a bit like a range mat, the frosty fairways are more forgiving on the strike.

Theortetically the ball will sit up more on the fairways due to the crispness of the grass and firm under footing. So effectively giving you a more perfect lie each time so that could be a factor in why you felt it much easier to hit everything more sweetly after all when do you get a perfect lie where the ball sits properly on top of the surface.

Could counter that though by say in the rough if it sits downs the moisture between ball and face would lead to inconsistent contact

Played TOC in frost on Saturday and could easily have been -5 after 7. Ball was going miles but not so hard you couldn't stop it on the greens.
Although I think that is a course which is always easy.

I find playing in the frost very tricky

I played Saturday and for the first few holes must have hit at least 4 thins. I think this is mainly due to having no control over my freezing cold hands but i don't think the rock hard floor helps!

Cheers guys

Ray I understand where you're coming from, because I've experienced that before in frozen conditions, especially when thinning it as the ball just chases on. The ground wasn't rock hard, it was still soft in places, but we had a frost which made the course look as if we'd had a light snowfall.

Mav the turf was slightly 'prickly' due to the frost, so you could be right because most balls did seem to be sitting up. I just connected so sweetly with everything just wondered if the conditions were favourable, as i didn't want to think I'd fathomed the game out and was now a better iron player than Luke Oh well, I'll just have to refuse to play in muddy conditions anymore, and only come out in frost

I have to say I HATE frozen hard ground - it takes away all the skill and the ball bounces everywhere. not possible to play finesse shots .. just bump across the ground.

Having said that i did eagle a par 4 at the weekend when I drove the green and holed a 10 foot downhill across the slope putt.

I luv links courses, so it's not the bounces - it's just that there is no skill at all

I'm surprised that you were able to play in frosty conditions Doc. Were the greens frosty too? From October we usually have to start later to allow for frost to clear and are subject to frost delays too.

1GrumpyGolfer wrote:I'm surprised that you were able to play in frosty conditions Doc. Were the greens frosty too? From October we usually have to start later to allow for frost to clear and are subject to frost delays too.

1GG the fairways were quite soft, just had a dusting of frost, but we were on winter greens, which were a joke especially on the front 9. The winter greens had been rolled, so were very hard and lumpy

Normally we have to wait for ice crystals to disappear before we can go out. I saw a great example of why in my last game last year. Nice set of brown footprints starting to track across the practice green before making their way off of the green. No doubt it was a hasty retreat as the guy was probably being yelled and cursed at.

The biggest surprise to me these days is that so many course stay open and allow play to continue of courses covered in frost! The damage it does to the greens with so many walking on them in that state is horrendous and just a few years ago wouldn't even be contemplated

According to our Head Greenkeeper. Frozen ground is not a problem as it doesn't damage the grass. It's when it starts to defrost that you break off the grass from the roots.

I am not a greenskeeper and our guy does talk sense, so I'm prepared to believe him

Last weekend was the first time we had real winter greens (hence my not turning in R8 of the eclectic). We usually have what they call "frost greens" where the pin is literally just a couple of feet off the front of the green. Probably too close to the edge for any qualifying comps but all our winter comps are NQs so that doesn't really come into it.

It gives the advantage of when you finally get to the green you are at least putting on a proper (albeit frozen) surface, instead of just a shaved area of fairway.

Given that we have pretty large greens, it means any damage is largely limited to the first few yards - and to be honest I haven't really seen any evidence of long term damage.

Before I joined my current club I played most of a my golf on a little pay and play that would open in pretty much any condition. I played there many times on severely frozen greens and never really saw any evidence there of long term damage either. For a cheap pay and play that saw it's fair share or real hackers and part time golfers, it is well known in the area for being in terrific condition for a PnP

Davie - Hmmm ----- seems to bear out what my HeadGreenkeer said

gwr-golfer wrote:According to our Head Greenkeeper. Frozen ground is not a problem as it doesn't damage the grass. It's when it starts to defrost that you break off the grass from the roots.

I am not a greenskeeper and our guy does talk sense, so I'm prepared to believe him

Interesting. Seems different people of different opinions, I was led to believe by a friend who is assistant head greenkeeper at the london club that yes frost is not harmful to the grass but facor in people playing on it then that leads to the grass fibres breaking down and effectively burning the grass from the inside.

BEsides this whether or not frost + golfers + damaged grass fibres I wouldn't know personally as im no agronomist or groundskeeper, the reason I find it damaging is inconsiderate Bar stewards that don't have the decency to remove the ice from their spikes before they walk onto the putting surface which causes craters in the green every where they walk.

I think that sometimes it has become a question of finances. Clubs feel more pressurised now to keep the course open, which keeps the members happy and green fees paying their money and therefore protects the cash flow.

In better economic times and when there were less courses for golfers to choose, I am sure that most courses were closed in conditions which they are now left open for play.

BlueCoverman wrote:I think that sometimes it has become a question of finances. Clubs feel more pressurised now to keep the course open, which keeps the members happy and green fees paying their money and therefore protects the cash flow.

In better economic times and when there were less courses for golfers to choose, I am sure that most courses were closed in conditions which they are now left open for play.

Nail firmly hit on the head there blue.

Our club have fantastic greens which are recognised as the best in the county. We've always played through the winter on them, until the Xmas before last where we had arctic conditions. So last December we were back on winter greens as the weather was seriously cold like the previous year. The weather this winter has been much milder, but winter greens have been prepared ready, and last weekend was the first time they were put into play, with some terrible results.

Some are ok, but many are pocked with divots and are lumpy, and there are even a couple of joke holes, where the WG is on a big slope making it almost impossible to hole out. Winter greens are ok if a club has the space to prepare decent surfaces, but those clubs are at a premium. Our head greenkeeper will only close the greens when temperatures are sub zero constantly. he actually uses a knife to test the greens before he'll allow early starters to tee off, and if the knife doesn't go half way in the tee's closed until it does. I believe the club are back on proper greens today ...

That reminds me Doc ... having said our greens are rarely closed, I had forgotten last winter where a lot of greens were closed for several days because the greenkeeper reckon the long periods of cold had frozen the ground down much deeper. His thoughts seemed to be that deep frost had the potential to cause much more long term damage whereas he is quite happy to let us play on greens where there is a sharp frost, (but obviously only on or near the surface)

As others have pointed out, I'm no expert on these matters, I just tend to go on what others tell me and report what happens in my experience. maybe there is something to this theory about "deep" frost

The deep frost thing causes problems, as any damage on top can't recover below so just dies. A normal frost is ok, but prologed low temperatures mean that most courses go to winter greens until a thaw, however there will be some courses where exposed greens are closed and more protected greens are still in play, so we just let the greenkeepers get on with things as they should know the best course of action for their own clubs.