Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

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Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by BlueCoverman on Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:46 pm

Comedian Jimmy Carr says he has "made a terrible error of judgement" over using a tax avoidance scheme.

This is in response to Prime Minister David Cameron calling Mr Carr's use of the scheme "morally wrong". Despite the fact that the K2 Tax Scheme used by his financial advisers is entirely legal, and has been fully disclosed to HMRC.

So was David Cameron right to single out an individual for such criticism particularly when nothing illegal has taken place? And will those comments come back to haunt him when, as it undoubtably will, it emerges that people a bit closer home to the PM have used similar tactics to reduce their own tax bill in the past?
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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by LadyPutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:03 am

I made a "terrible error of judgement" when I booked tickets to see Mr Carr and discovered he wasn't at all funny, just crude. I hope he enjoyed my hard-earned money on which I pay tax!
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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by diggers on Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:22 am

I think its pretty harsh for him to be singled out to be honest. I will guarantee you that plenty of Camerons chums from Eton get up to similar tricks, in fact they probably are the ones creating the vehicles that allow the tax shelter.
It sells more papers for the press to highlight Carr and Barlow and creates good PR for Cameron to stick his fat face in, but in reality Im sure these schemes are used far more by bankers and businessmen than by celebrities.
Its legal now but they nmeed to change the rules somehow to stop it being so in the future, bit like chasing shadows to do that it would seem though.


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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by Doc on Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:25 am

Cameron would have been best served by attacking the millionaires that have been shafting the revenue for eons. Its no surprise that the tory fundraiser has paid no taxes to our exchequer for years, ever since he moved his office to Belize. These people are the real problem as they don't pay any tax at all, yet use our country for their main businesses. Carr was unfortunate but I have no sympathy, as I don't for top footballers who all do the same and have been allowed to get away with it.
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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by Mary_S on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:14 am

I don't agree with singling out a few "celebs" for this practice. As mentioned above, no doubt there are many "faceless" multi-millionaires who have been party to similar schemes for years.

There are not many MP's who can claim that they live in glass houses regarding financial integrity.

LP - LOL, not the most enjoyable night of your life then? I think that JC is probably a "marmite" comedian.
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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by MustPuttBetter on Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:06 pm

I can't stand Jimmy Carr but i do think singling him out was wrong. Is he the biggest aggressive tax avoider in the country? Err, no.
If they want to shame someone over tax avoidance why not go for the financial businesses that sell, market and aggressively push the use of these schemes? Barclays, KPMG etc

It does make me laugh some of this stuff. I saw a bit on the news about this Carr thing and at the end it said 'Gary Barlow might also be in trouble too because he invested in a scheme and saved tax. The scheme helps fund the music industry but it's tax avoidance.....'
Hilarious. There are massively massively used schemes like the Enterprise Investment Scheme which are created by the government to encourage people to invest in small business by giving tax relief if you do. Without them new businesses wouldn't even get started. And yet when someone uses something like that it's apparently now aggressive tax avoidance. Nonsense

It's all well and good to say someone should pay their fair share but unfortunately what that means most of the time is 'they should pay as much as me' which of course isn't quite the same thing. How much is someone's 'fair share'?


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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by diggers on Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:21 pm

MustPuttBetter wrote:I can't stand Jimmy Carr but i do think singling him out was wrong. Is he the biggest aggressive tax avoider in the country? Err, no.
If they want to shame someone over tax avoidance why not go for the financial businesses that sell, market and aggressively push the use of these schemes? Barclays, KPMG etc

It does make me laugh some of this stuff. I saw a bit on the news about this Carr thing and at the end it said 'Gary Barlow might also be in trouble too because he invested in a scheme and saved tax. The scheme helps fund the music industry but it's tax avoidance.....'
Hilarious. There are massively massively used schemes like the Enterprise Investment Scheme which are created by the government to encourage people to invest in small business by giving tax relief if you do. Without them new businesses wouldn't even get started. And yet when someone uses something like that it's apparently now aggressive tax avoidance. Nonsense

It's all well and good to say someone should pay their fair share but unfortunately what that means most of the time is 'they should pay as much as me' which of course isn't quite the same thing. How much is someone's 'fair share'?


Spoken like a true accountant MPB Wink
I guess its easier to say that we all agree that 1% isn't a fair share ? What bugs most people with this is that of course you need big money to save big money, your average wage slave pretty much has to be PAYE and doesnt have a lot of options open to them.


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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by MustPuttBetter on Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:44 pm

Ha, i really tried not to write it like it was coming from an accountant

Of course 1% isn't a fair share, i can't disagree with that. But the whole concept of 'fair share' is a joke.

I was trying to make two seperate points really. One being that whilst Jimmy Carr has almost certainly taken an overly aggressive tax route, i do think singling him out was harsh and there are others Cameron could have singled out more effectively.

The second point, if 'the country' is going to vilify people like Gary Barlow who (if this is indeed what he has done) use scheme's to invest money in industry and business in exchange for tax incentives it won't be long before we come to a stand still.
Big difference between aggressive offshore tax planning and investing in businesses that give the best tax incentives (which i advise people to do ALL the time)

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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by diggers on Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:59 pm

No, I completely agree with you. I cant stand Carr but think he has had a raw deal here, especially considering the hypocricy of Fatface Dave saying that he wouldnt comment on Philip Green and his tax avoidance.

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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by MustPuttBetter on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:26 pm

Indeed
Bit of a brave / silly / odd move from Cameron because it's basically now open season on the Tories as they could hardly complain when the media go looking into and making public their financial arrangements - and there's no way some of them haven't tried to save the odd pound here and there...........

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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by BlueCoverman on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:27 pm

I agree MPB, I think Cameron may now be regretting that he chose to comment in the first place
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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by LondonJonnyO on Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:54 pm

What's the problem?

If any of you could opt out of paying tax I'm sure that you would jump at it.

I would.
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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by LadyPutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:18 pm

Mary_S wrote:LP - LOL, not the most enjoyable night of your life then? I think that JC is probably a "marmite" comedian.
I used to enjoy him on TV which is why I wanted to see him live. He was dire! No
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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by BlueCoverman on Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:25 pm

The problem is for the Tories as MPB said it's basically now open season on them.

I agree that in the same situation as Jimmy Carr most of us would have accepted his advisers recommendations, morally wrong or not. I just think that DC was unwise to single out Jimmy Carr for criticism for practices that are legal and widespread.
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Re: Jimmy Carr: My terrible error

Post by BlueCoverman on Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:26 pm

LadyPutt wrote:
Mary_S wrote:LP - LOL, not the most enjoyable night of your life then? I think that JC is probably a "marmite" comedian.
I used to enjoy him on TV which is why I wanted to see him live. He was dire! No

Perhaps he had just had a tax bill in LP!
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