The Scottish Question

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The Scottish Question

Post by Doc on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:58 pm

I have an idea that if Mr Salmond had his referendum this week, he would lose by a mile. I believe that even the most ardent SNP member would have been just a little bit proud of last weekends events.

The big picture though is not as simple as it sounds. Salmond wants to break away from London, but only for the bits he doesn't like. In theory he should break away completley, which means the NHS would be able to make all staff in Scotland redundant so they can be re employed by another Scottish body under TUPE. The same with the BBC, the Border Agency, Benefits Agency, DVLA, Schools etc and because they want to decide their own tax regime, then would need their own version of HMRC. These are just a couple of the things that would save the rest of us billions and put a massive strain on the new country. They would obviously need their own currency and don't think the EU would allow them to change to the Euro, as this would give them more serious problems than they already have with Greece.

Yes or No people of Scotland because you can't have it both ways
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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by diggers on Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:35 pm

Doc, I personally agree with you completely. However Im not sure that Cameron does, I think he is more than happy for increased devolution of powers. not to the extent that Salmon wants (or claims to want right now) obviously, but I suspect there will be a gradual shift of more control directly from Scotland.

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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by Doc on Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:58 pm

I listened to a couple of protaganists on 'Newsnight' a couple of weeks ago. One was an expert on national economics and he stated that Scotland would quickly become a 3rd world nation if a complete split happened. One SNP minister derided this and said they would still be attached to the bank of England ....... and a load of other 'non-split' bullocks. The 3rd guy was an original member of the SNP and said that Salmond was trying to do it in his owm way, which was watering down the whole seperation question. This guy said they wanted to be out of the union 100% and even if it meant a few years struggling wanted to build a new nation without England at its core. Well thats the version I want, and what it should be. I don't see why they should still take our benefits, our BBC, our NHS, Customs and excise, HMRC, DVLA, Schools and education money, banks, etc. Even our registered charity shops would need to pull out because they're registered in England.

Made me laugh watching the launch of the YES campaign recently, where all the so-called stars who were preaching about it, all lived in Hollywood and haven't paid taxes over here for years. maybe Sean Connery and the ilk can bankroll the country, because I don't see why I should.
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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by LadyPutt on Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:29 am

Agree with you 100% Doc - it's either a complete split or nothing at all.
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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by diggers on Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:53 am

Ultimately though its down to central govt here, nobody can force their hand right now so any devolved power will be given freely. Salmon is just chancing his arm.
I really dont think the vast majority of Jocks are that fussed, they are quite happy for things to tick along as they are.

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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by super_realist on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:04 am

I hate being Scottish and I hate all this flag waving plastic Scottishness that salmond and is poorly educated mongols who work for him are trying to force upon us.

I can see no benefit for Scotland to break away from a union. In fact I think the country would sink without trace and all the people with a job would simply move away and leave a heavily dependent benefit culture to somehow survive on the revenue from whiskey.

Well done Salmond. Exporting drunkenness to support a country.

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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by Doc on Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:05 pm

Question Time last night made me laugh a little, as it came from Inverness and had a few feisty characters on the panel. The only person who made any sense was Forsyth the former tory cabinet minister, now involved in Scottish politics. he told the audience just what would happen if there was a breakaway, and made the SNP rep on the panel look rather silly. The 'pick & mix' independance was shown up as laughable I'm afraid, but the tory could have rammed home the advantage were in not for keeping his powder dry until the ballot.

Yesterday's defence cuts should have been delayed until just before the ballot, because Scotland should need their own defence policy. We could have announced that the submarine bases, RAF bases and all the Scottish regiments were under threat. If the forces were to pull out of Scotland there would be a lot more jobs around the rest of the UK.

Our government really need to tell the Scottish people just will happen with independance. Stop pussy footing around and tell them like it is - could be
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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by Doc on Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:55 pm

How sad am I .... Couldn't sleep the other night so ended up watching the Parlaiment Channel and saw the 'defence questions'. As you know it's been announced this week that the 2nd tranche of redundancies is to take place in the forces. Plenty of questions were being asked about the Scottish regiments, the air force bases, the naval bases etc and the curt replies were a joy to watch. Under EU law defence contracts can be kept within the country and don't need to go out to tender. This means that if Scotland breaks away the defence spending will be done in the rest of the UK. The naval, air force and army bases will undoubtably close as we don't want to have a 'mercenary force' based in a foriegn country. Scotland can have its own forces, but couldn't afford to do it. The Scottish regiments could be either disbanded as part of the next round of cuts, or amalgamated into English regiments. The nuclear subs will be based back in England at a base already earmarked. The defence industry in Scotland will be decimated and all the companies who supply bases will be hard hit. So thats just the opening shot from HMG about defence, and when the SNP realise what will happen when the rest of HMG services are pulled out .........
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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by diggers on Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:04 pm

I dont think Scotland woudl need a huge defence budget. Certainly no need for them to continue spending the way the UK currently does, which is IMO a pointless waste of money. Why would Scotland possibly need nuclear subs anyway ? Quite why the UK does is beyond me to be honest.
Id imagine that Scotland would slot into having a Scandanavian type budget and approach to military spending, Im sure that they would also trade strategic bases for some form of protection from the rest of the UK.

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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by Doc on Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:58 pm

Diggs, regarding the nuclear sub issue and the billions being spent on updating Trident, I suspect a lot of this is down to being part of the US strategy and not our own defence as such. "If you want our umbrella and bases in the UK, then need to recipricate and be part of our overall defence strategy, independant of Europe". The most expensive club in the world, if you want to be a member, but alas probably a club thats redundant as the cold war ended years ago. A deterent maybe for the likes of Pakistan/India/China .... but really because of Iran. Why not tell the world we have the latest nuclear arsenal (Lie) and spend the cash where it needs spending to get the economy moving
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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by diggers on Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:12 pm

Indeed Doc, think thats spot on. Im sure we could/do have a lot of smoke and mirrors when it comes to the military anyway.
Re the Jocks though its quite easy for them to more or less say we wont spend a penny on our defence knowing that there is no way the rest of the UK Govt will not to ensure the safety of a country that borders our own. They would more or less have us over a barrel, we will probably end up paying them for the privilege of protecting them.
I suspect of far greater concern to most will be funding health care, pensions and education. And ultimately these will be the issues that will decide the referendum.

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Re: The Scottish Question

Post by Doc on Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:31 pm

Agreed Digs. Just imagine the outcry when the NHS is pulled out of Scotland. In theory the Scottish government would need to purchase the hospitals and form a new health company that transfers all NHS staff under TUPE arrangements. These staff would need to sign new terms and conditions at some stage. We must spend billions on the NHS up there when you factor in all the drugs, hospital and surgey upkeep, security etc. Great for us as we could use the cash to either pay down debt or reinvest it into getting industry working again. Be really interesting to find out just how many people are employed in the public sector up in Scotland, because they would all be made redundant in theory and need to be re employed by the Scottish government, if they decide they actually want said government department.

Just imagine the turmoil of English companies who have Scottish offices, warehouses, factories etc, because the Scotts would have their own tax system and could lose all these employers if the tax system is uneconomical.

The oil industry could see some massive fighting as HMG has invested billions in feilds along with the likes of BP. The SNP say the oil is Scottish and would want the revenue, well ok but surely they would need to buy HMG out of our capital investment ...

HMG would also lose all the Home Office Border Agency and HMRC. They would still need some form of agency to stop smuggling and of course ensure people are getting into Scotland legally with a visa. Otherwise we would need to have a tight border checkpoint all along the border to ensure we aren't swamped with illegal's terrorists, drug dealers and contraband. Think Salmond should do a bit of thinking before opening his mouth
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