Local Politics

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Local Politics

Post by Doc on Fri May 04, 2012 5:50 pm

So the tories and Lib Dems took a battering in yesterday's polls, and was probably expected given the many recent gaffs by Cameron/Osbourne. So have we really just shot ourselves in the foot, because it could be argued that local politicians try and do whats best for their communities. Some outstanding people have lost their jobs, and a lot of politicaly motivated labour activists are now in those positions. So we're bound to see many councils try and raise local taxes, a lot of union activity at local level with the odd bin strike thrown in.

Yesterday's election saw another very low turnout, because people are disillusioned with politics and those that did turn out have protested against the government. I accept that this is not election to vote in a government, but by protesting in this way, we are in for some turbulant times at local level, which will hurt Joe Public, because let's face it, the labour councils were the main problem with spending on stupid things, creating jobs for lesbian and gay rights projects and every form of PCism going, basically wasting money.

So Cameron and his more right leaning collegues, will now tighten things up over the next couple of years, to try and get the electorate back on side. In other words he'll change his principles to get votes ....
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Re: Local Politics

Post by diggers on Fri May 04, 2012 6:46 pm

What principles are those Doc ? Ive seen little sign that there have any. This whole govt is turning into a complete farce, it's clear Cameron and Osbourne are completely out of touch and the public know it.
Personally I was gutted there was no Green candidate to vote for in my ward, and that's in Brighton as well, should have offered to stand myself.

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Re: Local Politics

Post by Doc on Fri May 04, 2012 8:29 pm

Diggers this is the trouble with many politicians, as they bend with the breeze and very rarely stay true to their principles.

At least we didn't see any growth in BNP type parties, although RESPECT got 3 councilers elected in Bradford.

I would say that the best protest vote is not to vote at all, but we've gotten so used to low turnouts that it becomes the norm. Still very hard to accept that less than 30% of the UK population voted tory, but they get in. When I say UK population I meant to say those who voted which is a very small number. Politics in this country needs to be changed so that people want to become involved .... Not sure what the answer is as the usual suspects will always be the same under the present system.
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Re: Local Politics

Post by diggers on Fri May 04, 2012 8:33 pm

Personally Id make voting compulsory. It's so easy to do, no excuse not to really.
Re Cameron I think he is a pragmatist , much like Blair and much like many politicians. He will steer toward the path of least resistance. For all his faults , and there are a few , I wouldn't include Milliband in that category.

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Re: Local Politics

Post by LadyPutt on Fri May 04, 2012 9:36 pm

Agree diggers (for once). I have a postal vote which means I don't even have to go and find my local polling station - voted last weekend in the comfort of my kitchen. There is absolutely no reason why people should not vote - but I think it would help if there was a box on every ballot paper marked "none of the above" so you could vote but not vote, if you see what I mean. I find it increasingly difficult to find somone I think is worth voting for!
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Re: Local Politics

Post by Doc on Fri May 04, 2012 10:49 pm

LP I think that's part of the problem - trying to find someone worth voting for. less than 50% turnout is almost like treason in my eyes, but compulsory voting is a laudable idea, but I think deducting the 'none of the above' votes we would end up with the usual % of actual voters.

The apathy we the electorate feel towards our politics has shown up in a big way yesterday, regarding the local mayor's. In principle its a great idea and would be good for the local community, especially regarding jobs, and make us more like every other modern democracy. Unfortunatley we felt that we are disenfranchised from our politicians so don't trust the idea behind it. So there really doesn need to be a seachange in the way politicians communicate and interact with us, because we seem to be saying: your all crooks, we don't trust you, you need to get into the real world .......
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Re: Local Politics

Post by diggers on Fri May 04, 2012 11:24 pm

I think a lot of people would vote Doc, they just cant be arsed. Especially for local elections. Making them vote at least means they have to be involved, its just too easy to say I was too busy. As LP says that a joke of an excuse.
Again its easy to blame the politicians but a large degree of blame lies with an apathetic and largely ignorant electorate.
Its compulsary in Australia and is seen as a civid duty to vote. As far as Im concerned anyone who doesnt vote doesnt have a right to moan about politics in this country.

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Re: Local Politics

Post by LadyPutt on Fri May 04, 2012 11:42 pm

Doc - come and live where I do in London and I think you'll change your mind on elected mayors (and that's saying nothing about the overall London mayor). Our local council (Lewisham) has an elected mayor who is worse than useless but commands a huge salary and got a knighthood from his mate Tony for his pains. He's done nothing for the borough or the community, there's been no increase in jobs (just the opposite) and is completely divorced from reality. Give me "old fashioned" local politics every time.
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Re: Local Politics

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat May 05, 2012 1:21 am

Doesn't the fact that poeple don't want to vote or don't feel strongly enough to vote or - probably more true - feel they're going to get shat on regardless so why bother, tell us as much as an 'i don't like anyone' box would do anyway??

The problem is most politicians are as self serving as the rest of the world. They're not interested in the greater good or indeed how many people turn out.
If there was a general election tomorrow and only 5% turned out but Labour won with 3% of the 5%, does anyone think they'd say "hey look, we won but clearly we're not inspiring anyone, let's have a think.....". No of course they wouldn't, they wouldn't give a sh*t. Which is why no one else gives a sh*t. In my view Innocent

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Re: Local Politics

Post by diggers on Sat May 05, 2012 1:34 am

I dont agree MPB. I actually think the vast amount of politicians.....and by politicians I dont just mean MP's but pretty much anyone involved as a party member who actively campaigns...wants their party to have a clear and just mandate. And I do actually believe that these people do believe in the greater good, even the Torys, their view of what the greater good represents may be different to mine but at least they are out there trying to make a difference.
What do most people do, sit on their arses and moan even though they probably dont have a clue what any of the parties actual policies are. People dont need the excuse of not liking a party to be apathetic, they are just apathetic anyway. In many ways they just arent interested in politics which is fair enough, but they are interested in moaning about stuff even though they dont have a clue what is going on and dont make any active effort to change things by lets say........voting !!!!!!!
Why dont we just scrap democracy if its such a waste if time ?








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Re: Local Politics

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat May 05, 2012 2:13 am

I didn't say democracy was a waste of time or in fact that i agree with people who don't vote. I think people should vote.

But that doesn't change the fact that there is a reason people don't feel interesed in voting and whilst it is true that they maybe shouldn't feel that way, it is also lazy to ignore the reasons why they do.

As to whether most MPs believe in the greater good, i have huge doubts about that. They want a successful career just like the rest of us.
When the Tories won (or sort of won) the last election, do you think they gave a sh*t how many voters didn't turn up? Not a chance!

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Re: Local Politics

Post by diggers on Sat May 05, 2012 2:53 am

They certainly gave a shit about how many Tory voters turned out. If you have a clear mandate given by a large proportion of the electorate it certainly helps your credibility, and as I said MP's are only the visible tip of the poilitical parties.
Strikes me as crazy to enbter politics if you want a successful career. You can as I said earlier do a brilliant job and still lose your seat and job as people vote on national party lines. Surely to take that kind of risk you must have some kind of belief in what you are doing ?

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Re: Local Politics

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat May 05, 2012 3:01 am

Of course it helps your credibility, but if they were fussed i - Joe Normal - didn't hear a whisper of it. They were in, end of. Say what you need to, promise what you need to, do watever it takes to get in power. Rightly or wrongly, that's why no-one cares enough to vote.

I take your point about the risks but i don't see much of a belief system.

Politicians could sit here and say how terrible it is that people don't vote. Or they could ask why people don't vote and think about that. But they don't do that because that would mean how many people vote, rather than who they vote for, matters to them. And it doesn't

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Re: Local Politics

Post by diggers on Sat May 05, 2012 3:09 am

But by and large political parties broadly represent the beliefs of their members do they not ? The Labour party, The Torys, The Greens, its the grassroot support they have to appeal to in order to survive.
No party will appeal to everyone, it doesnt matter how honest and upstanding you are if you views are left then they wont appeal to someone on the right who will therefore have a go at you.
What is that you think that political parties could do that would make people go out and vote ? And how do they get that message across when most people dont even want to listen anyway, how many people actually listen to what canvassers have to say, whatever party they might be from. They would rather close the door and go back insode and watch Corrie.


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Re: Local Politics

Post by LondonJonnyO on Sat May 05, 2012 7:08 am

glad to see that osbourne refused to accept Basel 3. Too many holes in that document.
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Re: Local Politics

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