Football talking points

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Football talking points

Post by Davie on Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:14 am

First topic message reminder :

Rather than hijack the "which team do you support" thread where some of these are being talked about...

Some of the events of the weekend that are getting people talking

1) Mario Balotelli: plenty to say about him in general but specifically the alleged stamp on Scott Parker and his subsequent charge by the FA

2) Lescott's elbow on Kaboul(?) - FA say no charge to answer

3) Conspiracy theories in general about Man City!

4) Wenger's decision to take Chamberlain off and put Arshavin on - and Van Persie's reaction

5) Peter Crouch and the "eye-gouge"

6) Harry Redknapp and the tax-dodging allegations and court case

Discuss!
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doon the Water on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:48 am

Redrage would you be happy for Whyte to run a 'new' Rangers.
He seems worse than Mad Vlad.
Four 'expressions of interest' so soon, sounds a bit strange.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Mary_S on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:05 am

BlueCoverman wrote:Fancy an amalgamation between Rovers and City then Mary?... Innocent

Grrrr - wash your mouth out, and straight to bed with no supper! Wink


Last edited by Mary_S on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Football talking points

Post by diggers on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:08 am

Doon, if the 3 NE clubs joined together where would the 110000 supporters watch the match ?

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Re: Football talking points

Post by BlueCoverman on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:24 am

Mary_S wrote:
BlueCoverman wrote:Fancy an amalgamation between Rovers and City then Mary?... Innocent

Grrrr - wash your mouth out, and straight to bed with no supper! Wink

I will take that as a no then Mary

Merc/Doon...I guess you may have had the answer to your suggestion!
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doon the Water on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:27 am

Light hearted banter digs.

Most Geordies are part Scots so they love thier fitba.
It's a throwback to when we used to rule the region. I think they became independant.

Re clubs amalgamating Dundee and Dundee United grounds are about a good 7 iron apart. Now that is really daft.
When they play a derby match the players walk to the ground.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by diggers on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:18 am

Please don't lump us all together as Geordies Doon or I may have to invade Scotland !!!! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Football talking points

Post by Redrage on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:20 am

Doon the Water wrote:Redrage would you be happy for Whyte to run a 'new' Rangers.
He seems worse than Mad Vlad.
Four 'expressions of interest' so soon, sounds a bit strange.

Doon, I am really quite dismayed by Whyte. He has told too many lies and his past is a great concern. He is dodgy and I don't want that in charge of my club. I think his masterplan was to have most of the debt written off via administration and rebuild and prosper out of it. He doesn't have the clubs interest at heart but I suspect he would have pulled it off and we would be pretty strong in a few seasons time (and he would have sold us off at a handsome profit). That just doesn't sit well with me. Perhaps we have him all wrong, but he has kept his cards so close too his chest it is hard to view him with anything but suspicion.

I am pleased there have been so many offers of interest so soon. Whether there is anything in it is another matter. I find it annoying that the board members who caused this will get away scott free, they should be the ones footing the bill.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doon the Water on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:46 am

The big problem was caused by SDM's tax avoidance plan during the Advocaat big spending era. Chickens coming home to roost.
I find it quite amazing that a group of well heeled business men could be so stoopid.
I don't know about scott free SDM has lost a pretty penny.

Did Johnson and the dodgy South African guy put any money in or were they just hangers on?

The fans must feel totally let down by all these clowns running THIER club.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doc on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:33 pm

The administrators are now trying to find £24m which was loaned to them from the dodgy 'ticketus' company. This company buys future season tickets?? Dodgy at best and probably illegal. So Rangers taking money from a comany on the fact that season ticket money will pay it back.

Milan Madric has expressed an interest, errr why as he started the ball rolling at Portsmouth when he sold to some eastern europeans, went into Leicester and sold it on and is now at Sheffield Wednesday in League 1. Oh and Whyte nobs off abroad ....
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doc on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:56 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17043398

I think the above link just about sums up what so called football governance is all about. In desperation to carry on with the myth that football is decent, the FL don't do any dilligence and a guy who is wanted for fraud and asset stripping, and taking 2 other companies into administration is allowed to buy a football club.

"It would seem that he lied to us and has even been fraudulent" The FL should be fined in these cases and cover the lost taxes to the exchequer.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Redrage on Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:44 am

Doc wrote:The administrators are now trying to find £24m which was loaned to them from the dodgy 'ticketus' company. This company buys future season tickets?? Dodgy at best and probably illegal. So Rangers taking money from a comany on the fact that season ticket money will pay it back.

Rangers didn't use Ticketus for this loan, Craig Whyte did to fund his takeover (£18m meant to have been paid to Lloyds as part of the deal)... before he had bought the club! How is that even legal?
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Re: Football talking points

Post by gaelgowfer on Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:13 am

This whole situation is descending into farce.

Still, there's always a silver lining: Doon, I see the Hearts players got paid on time this week! Innocent Laughing

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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doon the Water on Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:12 am

Goodness that's two months on the trot. Obviously did not need the £800k that Rangers owe then from the Lee Wallace signing.

I have thought all along that Vad had a cunning plan, perhaps he will be working on Celtic any day soon.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by JAS on Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:57 am

Doon the Water wrote:The big problem was caused by SDM's tax avoidance plan during the Advocaat big spending era. Chickens coming home to roost.
I find it quite amazing that a group of well heeled business men could be so stoopid.
I don't know about scott free SDM has lost a pretty penny.

Did Johnson and the dodgy South African guy put any money in or were they just hangers on?

The fans must feel totally let down by all these clowns running THIER club.

Doon, Tax Avoidance is perfectly legal and everyone is entitled to indulge in it, indeed ISA's for example are a legitimate instrument of Tax Avoidance. EBTs are also instruments that can be used for legitimate Tax Avoidance. Tax Evasion is what is illegal and the problem with complex instruments such as EBTs is that there is a distinct lack of clarity about where to draw the line between Avoidance and Evasion (hence the dispute about the alleged "big bill"). If the line was clear it wouldn't be going to a tribunal. Not only is the line not clear it's also really not untypical of HMRC to move the goalposts and apply retrospectively on some of the more obscure elements of taxation. That being said the previous regime should have sought clarity before flying to close to the edge of the cliff!! Although clarity in HMRC terms is usually such a transient thing from year to year.

It would appear that the Murray regime was a lot of smoke and mirrors although he did pump a fair amount of investment in in the early days. He basically gambled on success in Europe and the market, funded by Sky went against him...in a way like the Kobe earthquake went against Nick Leeson when he was gambling with Barings money.

What has annoyed me in recent times is the likes of Bain trying to sue the club...wtf...he had an EBT!!! The other thing that set alarm bells ringing for me was John Greig walking away....that was the day it dawned on me that something very very wrong was going on.

It's now becoming increasingly clear that administration was Whyte's agenda all along (especially if it looked like the big tax case was a losing battle). I really don't think...even if he has good intentions toward the club that his position is viable going forward, I just don't think he'll be accepted.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by BlueCoverman on Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:01 am

Or to put it more simply...what's the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion?

A couple of years inside usually...
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Re: Football talking points

Post by JAS on Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:55 am

To change the subject away from Rangers but perhaps no away from financials...came across this li'l nugget on the beeb site earlier....

"Fifa security director Chris Eaton is leaving football's governing body just weeks after he launched a global campaign to fight match-fixing.
Fifa said Eaton will join the Qatar-based International Center for Sport Security in May as its Director of Sport Integrity.
A statement from Fifa said: "Fifa will appoint in the coming weeks a replacement for Chris Eaton, who will work together with his successor over the next few months to ensure a seamless transition and hand over the various ongoing investigations."


If I'm honest the first word that sprung to mind was.....BOUGHT!! Then I thought naaa.... he's going to Qatar...that's not exactly a place associated with "buying favour" - I mean, why would anyone bat an eyelid about a country smaller than the average UK county hosting the World Cup...Oh oops, Am I jumping to conclusions.
Yup that's football folk's...a stench greater than...well unwashed bollocks really!!
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Re: Football talking points

Post by gaelgowfer on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:36 pm

I see Craig Whyte is suing the BBC for defamation ...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/rangers_administration_craig_whyte_sues_bbc_for_defamation_1_2124554

Reference The Scotsman itself, it's very disapointing to see its journalistic standards dropping even further. There's a photograph of a bowler-hatted gentleman heading towards the Rangers entrance. Presumably one is supposed to believe this is a representative from HMRC. Unfortuntaly, there are a few discrepancies which suggest this is a put-up job. Anyone left on the planet who still wears a bowler hat certainly wouldn't have worn that jacket or shoes with it and I somehow don't think a representative of Her Majesty would have entered by the fans entrance! An attempt at humour? Probably, but one I would have expected from the more traditional (page 3) tabloid newspapers.

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Re: Football talking points

Post by diggers on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 am

Brilliant result for Sunderland today, have to say the team that wanted it the most won.

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Re: Football talking points

Post by BlueCoverman on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:43 am

Well done Sunderland...Martin O'Neill showing once again his amazing ability to motivate his team.

No trophy again this year for Arsenal...could a bad result against Spurs next weekend signal an end to Arsene Wenger's time in charge?
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Davie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:34 am

I really don't know what to say about Arsenal. Wenger must now be on a real tightrope yet I still get the feeling he has the backing of the club.

My biggest problem is who is there out there on the market who is better? A Wenger who admits his mistakes and tries to do something about them would be a perfect answer but I think he is too stubborn for that - it's his way or the highway and at the moment, the highway is looking favourite

Stuffed in the CL, stuffed in the FA Cup - and anything but a win against Spurs next weekend means we definately finish behind them in the PL and a top 4 place looks doubtful. Anyone other than Wenger would already be out of the door.

The only manager remotely "available" at the moment that I'd like is Jose - and I can't see that happening. A repentant and willing-to-change Wenger is a second choice but I can't see that either. So where do we go instead? I'm afraid I have no idea Sad

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Re: Football talking points

Post by diggers on Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:46 am

Davie, there are very few managers better than the Wenger of 6 years ago. Not so sure about the Wenger of now.

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Re: Football talking points

Post by diggers on Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:57 am

Interesting stat, Arsenal last 2 games 6 goals conceded......from 6 shots on target.

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Re: Football talking points

Post by Mary_S on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:03 am

Wonder if Jose might end up at Spurs or Arsenal for next season?

Wenger will certainly leave some big shoes to be filled if he goes.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Davie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:07 am

So Diggers if you were an Arsenal fan, who would you want to take over?

And as for the stat - not sure what that shows TBH. Are you saying that in the last two games the GK didn't make a single save?

Looking back on the Milan game I didn't think Sczenzy had a bad game - two cracking finishes, a penalty and a slightly soft goal.

Flapianski is a different matter
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Re: Football talking points

Post by diggers on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:16 am

I guess it shows that you aren't getting overwhelmed at the back if nothing else.
If I was a Gooner there are several I'd prefer, Jose, Mancini, Pep for a start. But will you get any of those, unlikely.
To be honest I'd give someone like Hiddink a go if you could tempt him.

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Re: Football talking points

Post by Davie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:01 am

That's the thing though. I'd not be unhappy with any of the names you mention but I can't see any of them being realistic chances
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Re: Football talking points

Post by diggers on Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:10 am

They wont know who will come until they put the word out Davie. Arsenal are a massive club in a good financial position. London is a big draw for managers as is the Premier League.
You might be suprised who you get. Maybe Frank Rijkaard would be another option, he built the basis of that Barca side for years and is now just taking the cash in Saudi Arabia.
Maybe you can tempt MON away from us. There are all sorts of options once you start looking and people know you are serious, remember Wenger never game to Arsenal as a great manager but he will leave as one.

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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doc on Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:15 pm

I actually got exited about being a leeds fan on Saturday. The arrival of Warnock as our new manager, was the most positive thing ken Bates has done for 2-years. 2-0 down at half time he went into the dressing room (AS he was only there to watch) ripped into the team and tactics, reorganised a few simple things and we scored 3 goals to win.

He may be a prat, but always good value in the media as he takes no prisoners, but he's won promotion 7-times and was recently unlucky at QPR as the new owner wasn't a fan.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by BlueCoverman on Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:16 am

Apparently Ken Bates was photographed meeting Neil Warnock in Monaco last Friday Doc.

No doubt just giving a mate half a million quid to invest!
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Mary_S on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:41 pm

Don't like Warnock (has history of bad blood with Rovers when he was Manager of Notts County). Can't deny that he is a decent Manager though - will be interesting to see how the dynamic with Ken Bates works.

Squeaky bottom time for AVB this evening - I think the fat lady is waiting in the wings.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by diggers on Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:45 pm

Not sure Chelsea can afford to get rid of AVB right now. Have a feeling they will play the long game with him, which in Chelski terms is about 2 seasons.
RA knows his old guard have peaked, summer clear out and a squad that AVB can call him his own I think might be the way forward.

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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doon the Water on Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:05 am

Supersize Ally seen talking to Dave King at Murray Park.

Frying pan/fire spring to mind.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Mary_S on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:08 am

Had to laugh at the rumour sweeping Twitter this afternoon, that Edinburgh Woollen Mill had bought Rangers out of Administration.
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Re: Football talking points

Post by JAS on Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:26 am

Did anyone else notice the footage on Skysports News of Walter Smith going to suss out the Wolves job?? Was I mistaken or was that Kenny McDowall beside him??
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doc on Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:58 pm

JAS wrote:Did anyone else notice the footage on Skysports News of Walter Smith going to suss out the Wolves job?? Was I mistaken or was that Kenny McDowall beside him??

Even Walter's turned Wolves down. So where does that leave them, because there are no decent candidates left. Warnock preffered leeds and Curbs has now knocked them back twice. They started thinking about other people and then Reading and Cardiff tied their managers to long term contracts. I'm glad really, because without big Mick Wolves would have been playing championship football a few seasons ago. he's managed to keep them up single handedly and was always backed by Moxey, but the new guy who tried to buy Liverpool and failed, so bought Wolves, obviously thinks they can do better.

Back on the Rangers debacle, it seems that police have now been handed documents concerning Whyte's takeover. HMRC also state that the £9m they are owed is now £13m and by the end of next week could be £15m. A lot of shyte to come out of there yet. Whyte seems to be a shark, and I don't understand how he was allowed to get millions of cash loaned to him by a company who were going to take future season ticket money for 3 seasons. Thats like getting a loan from the fans, in fact its buying something without having any money at all, and loading the club with even more debt - fans buying season tickets really putting that money straight into Whytes pocket. ....
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Mary_S on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:47 pm

Doc - I agree, Wolves are getting the Karma they deserve at the moment.

Don't profess to have great in-depth knowledge of the Rangers situation, but from what I have read is sounds an absolute disaster. I can never understand how these people pass scrutiny to take over football clubs.

I expect Liverpool to collect their first trophy of the season at the weekend.

*Update - I see that Wolves have appointed Terry Connor until the end of the season. TC is a really good guy, he was involved in coaching the Bristol Rovers youngsters when my son was there. I think that John Ward took him to Wolves as his assistant, and he's remained on the backroom staff ever since?
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doc on Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:49 pm

Mary I was at elland road to see Terry's debut as a 17 year old kid straight from school and playing as centre forward for Leeds Utd. He was like a kid in a sweet shop and proud as hell, and then he scored and 45,000 fans went wild for him. he must have felt like a giant, being a black schoolboy and playing for his local team

Feel sorry for him now though, because Wolves new owner is obviously a tool. Why sack a manager who's had them punching above their weight for too long and then tell the world that a new top experienced manager's needed to stave off relegation. Everyone knocks them back and so they use someone with no experience at the most cruical time in their recent history. What a joke and goodnight Wolves - you deserve all you get
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Re: Football talking points

Post by 1GrumpyGolfer on Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:36 am

Such a great day to be a gooner.

Maybe we will get to celebrate st totteringham's day this year.

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Re: Football talking points

Post by Mary_S on Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:52 am

Not a Gooner, but much prefer Arsenal to Spurs. Great match to watch - never a dull moment! bounce
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Re: Football talking points

Post by 1GrumpyGolfer on Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:10 am

Must have been pensioners day out up at Norwich. Giggs on his 900th appearance scoring and Scholes getting on the scoresheet too. Come on Cardiff!


Last edited by 1GrumpyGolfer on Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Poxy iPad keyboard)

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Re: Football talking points

Post by ChrisGG on Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:48 am

What a game!! Great win for Arsenal!
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Davie on Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:49 am

1GrumpyGolfer wrote:
Maybe we will get to celebrate st totteringham's day this year.

1GG - maybe you can tell me when the last time was that we didn't have a St. Totteringham's day? It must be a LONG time

I came back from the golf club to my local pub where there are Spuds fans - particulary a couple who are known as Beavis and Butthead (one of them is really called Beavis and the other fits the name perfectly) - they were quite subdued to say the least!

Despite the "no mobile phones" on the course I did check the half time score at the half-way hut and was relieved (and not a little shocked) to see we'd come from 2-0 down to 2-2. When I got to the 19th hole and saw the 5-2 score I was just a little bit excited Wink

At the 19th hole we have a resident gooner who was the happiest man on the planet - he'd watched the whole game live in the clubhouse and was getting dog's abuse from the Spuds fans. His only regret was that they had left before the final whistle!
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Re: Football talking points

Post by 1GrumpyGolfer on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:05 am

1995, Davie. Though we have left it to the last day on more than one occasion.

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Re: Football talking points

Post by Davie on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:14 am

I'd never heard the expression "St Totteringham's day" until a few years ago on the old, old BBC 606. It's a day I celebrated every year though since I learned of it - let's hope we can celebrate it again this year!

Hoping to catch the highlights later tonight as I missed the game live through being on the golf course
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Doc on Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:23 am

So the Rangers train still rumbles on, with todays latest another low point for football north of the border. The stock exchange fine Rangers £50k for not informing them that Whyte had been barred from being a company director for 7-years. A couple of points about this 1) The SFA should give Rangers the £50k because if they had done their job properly they wouldn't have allowed Whyte to buy the club under the 'fit and proper' rule. 2) The people who sold the club to Whyte should have done their due dilligence so they should be culpible too.

The stock exchange intimated that because of the present circumstances they have been leniant, because this sort of infringement is serious and could lead to very hefty sanctions.

Going to be fun times when it all comes out, and the police investigation means making some arrests .....
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Re: Football talking points

Post by diggers on Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:32 am

Anyone watching tonite? Hard to be too interested really, the striker options are looking pretty bare without Rooney or even Bent.
That said I may well Sky plus it and watch on the middle of the night when I'm on baby placating duty, might help keep me sane.
I know England are meant to have been rubbish forever but I was at the England Holland game at Euro 96 when we stuffed them, looked like a real quality side for once. Hey ho.

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Re: Football talking points

Post by Davie on Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:00 am

I'll be watching - looks like it could be OK for a friendly

Disappointed he didn't go with Sturridge and Wellbeck together though - I'd have liked to see how that worked
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Re: Football talking points

Post by Davie on Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:42 am

So Unibrow only gets 30 minutes? Probably explains why he isn't (and shouldn't be) captain
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Re: Football talking points

Post by diggers on Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:11 am

I thought he was crocked but who knows. We played pretty well in the first half with no real quality at the top. Parker played like a skipper should. I do fear for how deep we could play with Parker and Barry in the side, mind you it's how City set up and works for them.
Richards IMO could be one of the worlds best right backs, the guys a monster. Cue Robben goal now Ive said that!

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Re: Football talking points

Post by Davie on Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:50 am

Great result for the Gooners today at Anfield cheers

Typical away win really - Liverpool seemed to dominate possession but Van Persie did it again!
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