Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

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Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by Davie on Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Apparently Graham Poll (ex referee) was on 5 Live this morning talking about the two incidents at the weekend involving Lampard and Barton and commenting that "you look at Barton and Lampard,and you start to wonder if previous form comes into the mind of the ref"

Is this necessarily a bad thing?

For those that didn't see the incident, Lampard went in with a very late tackle, studs up, and caught his opponent nastily on the ankle. Lampard got only a yellow card and said himself that he was very lucky not to get a straight red. I don't believe there was malice in the tackle but it was certainly late, reckless and a potential leg breaker

Joey Barton was sent off for "headbutting" an opponent. Clips I've seen don't show a definite head butt, but it does show Barton going nose to nose with his opponent who made the most of it and fell backwards.

I'd say Barton's red was warranted, regardless of his previous reputation; Lampard certainly should have had a red in my mind, but I wonder if he got away with it because he's not a repeat offender with tackles like that.

Should people with previously good reputations be given the benefit in situations like this? I think not, but I can easily see how it might happen
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by Doc on Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:02 am

MustPuttBetter wrote:Agree with Ray

You could argue that we should have done better than the quarters in one or two of the tournaments during his time in charge, but that was owing to players as much as anything. Can anyone think of any major decisions that they would have done differently to Sven? I can't

MPB I rember the world cup where he insisted on taking Beckham, and playing him in every match, when he had only just come back from a broken foot. He wasn't allowed to train and was still actually injured, and when we departed the competition earlier than expected, Beckham was a shadow of himself. A later world cup he took a kid just out of school called Walcott. yes he was a great future prospect and the experience would do him good, but as it turned out we should have took a proper player because as usual the squad got jaded, but still didn't give Walcott a chance. Walcott another with plenty of promise who has failed to live up to his hype.

Oh and we don't practice penalties was another fauxpas. The highlight of his reign was one of his ex birds being beaten up by Stan Collymore, but agree he did bring some order to things.
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:36 am

Davie wrote:Just to bring this back to Joey B for the moment, I see his appeal against the red card has been rejected Twisted Evil

Good
He's probably tweeting his lawyer as we speak

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:45 am

Doc, he did play Beckham having not long been back but he was our captain and best player and there really wasn't anyone else i would have wanted picked at RW at the time. I would probably have done the same as i think would most people at the time. He ended up jumping out of that tackle agianst Brazil and we conceded and lost but everything is easier in hindsight. That was more a Beckham mistake than a Sven one.

Re Theo, ok he took him but that's hardly a tournament changing mistake. I don't remember Owen or Rooney looking jaded and if someone else had gone instead of Walcott i suspect they'd have had as much involvement as Theo did

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by Davie on Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:57 am

Does anyone else think that Theo performs better for England than he does for Arsenal?

I wonder if that is "thanks" to Sven taking him to the WC?
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:04 am

I don't think he performs consistently for either to be honest.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:35 am

He hasn't been consistent for either but certainly has put in more 'big' performances for England than he has for Arsenal.

Problem is......the sum total is ONE big performance

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:41 am

Let's face it Steve Stone probably played better for England than Walcott has thus far bar one game.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:49 am

Only after he'd gone to Villa and learned how to play properly Smile

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:14 am

It's funny because you took Darren Bent of us and he's forgotten how to play.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:23 am

Bent does ok considering he gets zero service. If I were him I'd be out of Villa Park like a rocket

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:27 am

Not sure where he would go. The fact he supposedly failed at Spurs seems to rule out bigger clubs, even though he actually did OK in goals per games.
Maybe he will buy him back for say 10 million.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:34 am

Ha I'd think someone like Liverpool would snap him up. He's exactly what they're missing

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:38 am

But they've got Andy Carroll Razz

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:44 am

Exactly!! Shart Fans

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by raycastleunited on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:59 am

MustPuttBetter wrote:Bent does ok considering he gets zero service. If I were him I'd be out of Villa Park like a rocket

I read today that statistically Bent has had fewer touches of the ball (relative to time on the pitch) than any other player in the prem this season. Poor service or poor positioning?
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by raycastleunited on Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:06 am

Doc wrote:
MustPuttBetter wrote:Agree with Ray

You could argue that we should have done better than the quarters in one or two of the tournaments during his time in charge, but that was owing to players as much as anything. Can anyone think of any major decisions that they would have done differently to Sven? I can't

MPB I rember the world cup where he insisted on taking Beckham, and playing him in every match, when he had only just come back from a broken foot. He wasn't allowed to train and was still actually injured, and when we departed the competition earlier than expected, Beckham was a shadow of himself. A later world cup he took a kid just out of school called Walcott. yes he was a great future prospect and the experience would do him good, but as it turned out we should have took a proper player because as usual the squad got jaded, but still didn't give Walcott a chance. Walcott another with plenty of promise who has failed to live up to his hype.

Oh and we don't practice penalties was another fauxpas. The highlight of his reign was one of his ex birds being beaten up by Stan Collymore, but agree he did bring some order to things.

At the time, Beckham was the "go to" guy, the player who Sven could rely on to perform in a pressure situation. Even on one leg he could still deliver a quality dead ball whcih was all he needed to do (and really all he ever contributed anyway).

As for Walcott, well it seemed to work out when Brazil took an unknown 17 year old called Ronaldo to the 94 World cup. He didn't play a game but they still won the tournament. If Sven had taken someone else they wouldn't have played either, so it was basically a free pick.

Oh and my mate used to watch them train and they did practice penalties. I think that was some misguided attempt to diffuse pressure.
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:29 am

raycastleunited wrote:
MustPuttBetter wrote:Bent does ok considering he gets zero service. If I were him I'd be out of Villa Park like a rocket

I read today that statistically Bent has had fewer touches of the ball (relative to time on the pitch) than any other player in the prem this season. Poor service or poor positioning?

Ha, I can safely say it's very very VERY bad service!!

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by Redrage on Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:16 pm

MustPuttBetter wrote:More than Gascoigne, Le Tissier for me sums up the guy who has all the talent in the world but really just quite fancies an easy time. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
So much ability but obviously was comfortable at Southampton and couldn't quite be bothered to try too hard to get in the England side. Shame really


Le Tis would be the first to admit what a lazy player he was (despite being extremely talented), Gazza was never lazy. Both could have achieved more than they did but for differing reasons. If Gazza had Lampard's mentality and lack of injuries he could have rivaled him for goals from midfield. His finishing was magnificent with either foot, from distance and even with his head. Gazza had everything as a player, the sort you are happy to pay to watch in action and could really take control of a game. I don't feel you get that kind of entertainment from Lampard but his career stats and success is very hard to argue with!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HlQDIHkBow

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by Maverick on Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:02 pm

Bit of a late comer to this thread!

Firstly Lampard should have been off and got away with it because he seems to be a darling of english darling no idea why! Whereas Barton got sent off due to his persona and past crimes and was totally wrong! He never headbutted the player and you see what he did by every player week in week out.

I like barton as a player and think his bite and ability to wind others up in the niddle is something most teams need! Are his on pitch offences any worse than say Roy Keanes!!! But he played for Utd so got away with murder!

Now who was it that mentioned Theo the single most overrated player to pull on an arsenal shirt! He can't pass, can't cross and his finishing at best is average! Not a top team player more of a highlight in a lower half the table team! There are so many better wingers out there yet he still gets selected to often.

Is it me or are we severly lacking quality wingers in general, as much as people slate Andy Carrol what real service does he get! Downing's final ball is poor and Kuyt aint no right sided winger!

So even for england carrol does not perform but who puts the crosses in Theo/Downing/Lennon! All poor crossers of the ball imo. The best of the modern bunch is Ashley Young a good finisher but still not a good crosser of the ball!
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:18 pm

Redrage, i never Gazza was lazy on the pitch. What i said was he had all the ability in the world but fancied an easy time of things. He wasn't exactly a focussed on only football workaholic now was he!
Completely agreed with you how good he was though.

Mav, absolutely right re Carroll. I don't think he's all that good but he has no chance at Liverpool. I watched them the other day and, bearing in mind Carroll has to start at the mo, he was starting with Downing and Henderson. I thought "ah, he's going to get some crosses in as Carroll is playing". No, they went with Henderson left side and Downing right. What's the point in that??

Ashley Young and Adam Johnson are England's two best crossers of the ball these days. Would be perfect for playing right and left. Rooney's not all that bad in the air either. Do any of them get much of a look in? Not really. Young more so of late but not in a wide role. Odd

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by Maverick on Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:38 pm

Mpb

That's my point re: Carrol he's a target man and gets no service what's the point buying a guy that is strong and good in the air if you don't give service.

Johnson and Young would be my England picks to but noipe sane old selection and tactics, and don't get me started on magaers playing wingers on the wrong sides! The single most pointless use of a crosser their is!
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:58 pm

Downing can certainly cross, he certainly did at Villa and Boro. Was probably his biggest strength. Not sure whats happened since he went to Liverpool. But wingers do tend to flicker in and out of form more than other positions, Young being a classic case in point this season. Johnston also gone right offt he boil just as he gets a chance in the side, pity really as he has a lot of talent.
Mind you I remember the grief that Waddle and Barnes used to get for England and they were both head and shoulders better than any of the current crop.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by Redrage on Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:32 am

MustPuttBetter wrote:Redrage, i never Gazza was lazy on the pitch. What i said was he had all the ability in the world but fancied an easy time of things. He wasn't exactly a focussed on only football workaholic now was he!

I am not sure what you are trying to say MPB, where did he fancy an easy life? He played at the very top end for much of his career until (post Rangers) managers of top clubs were afraid to take him on and even then he was still collecting England caps. Football was the only thing he was dedicated too, when he wasn't training or playing is when things would go wrong for him. Le Tis didn't train well, never used his skill to the best of his ability and did not progress his career as he could. I don't think you can compare the two at all. Gazza used his skill well, played at the highest level most of his career it's just he just could have been even better if he wasn't so mentally fallible. He didn't choose to be a nutter the way Le Tis chose to shy away from making a step up, Gazza couldn't help it for the most part.
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:49 am

Bloody hell Redrage, are you Gazza??

I can compare them (and have) as they are similar in the respect that neither made the most of their ability. Not necessarily in the same way but there's no doubt Gazza liked his lifestyle.
Gaza played hard, trained well true. But it is also true that he liked a drink , a joke, a night out etc.
He could have given that stuff up but that would have been hard and he preferred not too. That's where he fancied an easy life.

Ergo, he chose the easier route of maintaining the lifestyle he liked, which wasn't condusive to being the best footballer he could be.
He was so talented that this meant he could still play at THE top level but, for brief moments aside, i believe not HIS top level.

That's what i'm trying to say. Surely it's not too hard to grasp.

Are you of the opinion that had Gazza not been a little less lazy about his lifestyle and made some more difficult choices that he could have been a better player?
If you're not, you're probably the only person i've met who thinks that way


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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:51 am

ps, Le Tiss played at the top level all his career also by the way. So i'm not sure that qualifies as proof that a player isn't after an easy time. It just means they're good!

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:52 am

I think Gazza's main issues when he was playing were the two bad injuries. Though both apparently were ccmpletely down to him, maybe thats why he was so depressed when he was sidelined. He was by all accounts always a fantastic trainer, just wanted to kick a ball around. He was never the same player after the Lazio injury, that little bit of gas and power was gone.
Le Tiss seems like a nice guy but he was just in a comfort zone at Saints. He must have had chances of big moves, I really wish he had taken one of them. You never really know what you get out of a player until they are playing week in and week out with other top drawer players.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:56 am

That's why i expressly said that Gazza and Le Tiss took the easy route in different ways.

There is no doubt in my mind that Gazza would have achieved more had he given up the drinking, partying, Danny Baker and the rest of it. But he didn't want to.
That's taking the easy route, and is as much bottling being a really really top drawer player as Le Tiss not taknig the move to Man Utd is

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by super_realist on Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:00 am

Matt Le Tiss's top ten goals on Youtube is something else.

No English player has ever scored as many good goals as him.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:01 am

True, though Gazza wasnt alone in the drinking culture of the time though.
Id say Le Tiss liked a drink, liked to eat a lot, didnt like to train and liked his comfort zone.
Gazza liked a drink which didnt I think affect him as much as his injurys did.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by super_realist on Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:07 am

There were a lot of people around that time who didn't take care of themselves, it was like the pre professional era even though they were allegedly professional. e.g. Merson, Adams, Gascoigne, Le Tissier, Paul McGrath, Neil Ruddock, Neville Southall, Mickey Quinn etc etc.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:15 am

Of course, and most of those guys you could say the same things about - McGrath, Merson certainly didn't achieve their potential

Digs, i don't know whether the injuries or the drink affected Gazza more. You could potentially argue were it not for the drink/joke persona he may not have been the type of character to pick up those injuries. Who knows.

The drink certainly affected what he achieved though. Example, he most likely would have been on the plane to France 98 had Hoddle not seen him as a disruption.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by super_realist on Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:22 am

Had he taken more care of himself MPB, he might have been that 6 inches quicker to knock in that tap in at the far post in Euro 96 against Germany.


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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:25 am

Ha, that would have been nice!

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:27 am

True enough MPB. Though I think it has to be pointed out that Gazza clearly has and probably always has had personality disorders. Whether that be ADD or full on problems with alcohol addiction, he clearly has/had mental health issues which were beyond his own ability to deal with.
Le Tiss on the other hand seems like a bright, pretty well adjusted guy who really should have tried a lot harder. Or rather, to earn my full respect as a fan he should have tried harder, he himself was clearly quite happy and there is alot to be said for that as well I guess.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:35 am

True enough, Gazza definitely has/had some mental problems.
But it would appear to me (and i've read his book) that he never really put all that much hard work into overcoming them. He just kinda got on with it. Had he tried really really hard but still couldn't get past an addiction to drink then you'd have to say he achieved all he could have, but i don't think he really did that and i'm not entirely sure he ever really wanted to

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by Redrage on Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:12 am

diggers wrote:True enough MPB. Though I think it has to be pointed out that Gazza clearly has and probably always has had personality disorders. Whether that be ADD or full on problems with alcohol addiction, he clearly has/had mental health issues which were beyond his own ability to deal with.
Le Tiss on the other hand seems like a bright, pretty well adjusted guy who really should have tried a lot harder. Or rather, to earn my full respect as a fan he should have tried harder, he himself was clearly quite happy and there is alot to be said for that as well I guess.

At last somebody who can grasp the difference between the two. Gazza wasn't a rational and well rounded individual. He didn't choose an easy life as MPB continues to incorrectly describe his career, he had very little choice at all and it did anything but make his life easy and to describe his actions in such a way is masking a sensible point that I think he is really trying to make. Nobody would argue that he couldn't have delivered more if he had a Lampard like, clean living approach off the pitch and didn't have mental health problems. In my opinion you can't compare the two because Le Tis really did choose the easy life, Gazza made poor choices off the pitch but never shirked away from trying to be as successful as he could on it.

MustPuttBetter wrote:ps, Le Tiss played at the top level all his career also by the way. So i'm not sure that qualifies as proof that a player isn't after an easy time. It just means they're good!

Top level? How many caps did he win? How many trophies/honours won? How many appearances in European competition? Next to nothing. Gazza on the other hand achieved a lot on his ability. In hindsight it could have been even more, but he wasn't scared to put himself out there.
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:45 am

Redrage, I'm not sure if you know whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.

Yes there are differences between the two. I've said that but you would prefer to ignore that as it suits your point better.

And yes Gazza worked hard on the pitch. We've covered that.

But you speak of his alcoholism as if he could do nothing but drink. That's not correct. He could have tried to beat it. But he didn't try, not really. Have you read his autobiography? I assume you have and if so you will know.
Choosing to beat it would have been the hard choice, the hard work, the challenge. He chose the easier route, the weaker route, if you prefer. And consequently he didn't achieve all he could. Oh look, we're back to my original point....

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:48 am

If you think Gazza achieved 'a lot on his ability' we may as well agree to disagree as I think that couldn't be further from the truth. I can't think of many players who have achieved so little with so much ability

I'll let you list the trophies he won. Fill your boots...

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by Redrage on Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:45 am

MPB - the only thing you said with which I would agree is that he was so good he could have won even more titles... had he been at the right club.

With which teams should have won more trophies? Newcastle? No way. Spurs? Hardly an illustrious club and Arsenal and Liverpool had very good sides at the time. Lazio? They weren't that big a club when he went to them and injuries spoiled his time their. He was good but was he going to single handedly overthrow what was a magnificent AC Milan side? He won trophies at Rangers and by the time he left he was damaged goods that the best teams didn't want. It really isn't as simple as you make out.

Do you think Steven Gerrard should have won more trophies? It isn't that easy. You need to choose the right club at the right time. Unfortunately for Gazza he always went where the money was. Spurs over Man U? Poor decision given that they had just finished runners up to Liverpool and appeared to be going somewhere (sorry Spurs fans).

I have indeed read his first autobiography and the thing that struck me most was that he never seemed to get any good advice from those closest to him and that he wasn't very intelligent (not that you needed to read it to work that out). I don't think you are in a position to decide how hard he tried to give up drinking on the basis of a book. He is an addict and has long standing mental health issues. How would you know how easy it was for him to change his ways?

What is clear is that we have very contrasting views on the subject and there is little sense debating it further.
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:57 am

So on one hand you're saying Gazza played at the very highest level and achieved a lot but also on the other hand that he played for non illustrious clubs who won nothing apart from in Scotland.

For what it's worth I agree with the Hyde side of your Jekyll & Hyde viewpoint and would agree than he really didn't play for clubs of a large enough stature for his talent and he could have won much much more.

I say again I can't think of another player to have achieved so little from so much ability.

I am not in a position to know the inner workings of his mind, you are correct. This is why I have ingeniously used the phrases 'it seems to me' and 'I believe'. Based on what he says in his book and based on the information available to me he does not appear to have tried very hard to be the best he could have been. I suppose you could say he was lazy with his talent.

Oh yes, that is what I said.
Nothing more contentious than that. A perfectly reasonable conclusion as far as I can see and, as stated, only my opinion
You are welcome to have another view so let's agree to disagree

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by Redrage on Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:25 am

MustPuttBetter wrote:So on one hand you're saying Gazza played at the very highest level and achieved a lot but also on the other hand that he played for non illustrious clubs who won nothing apart from in Scotland.

He did play at the highest level though, for me you can't dispute that he did. He earned 59 caps, played at a World Cup and European Championship, played for a competitive Serie A side, won an FA cup with Spurs, he played Champions League football and won 4 trophies including 2 league titles with Rangers in 2 seasons. His overall success (in terms of titles won) at that level might not have matched his talent for some people and I can follow that logic, but would argue that he had no divine right to win medals. But his career was a world apart from Le Tissier who remained a big fish in small pond for his entire career and cannot see a sensible parallel between their respective careers.

Anyway, I have nothing more to add. I have enjoyed our discussion it has given me something to do today as I battle a man flu.
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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:18 pm

Just to throw a name in the hat re achieving not a lot in terms of medals with so much ability. Alan Shearer anyone ?

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:30 am

I hate Frank Lampard. Shins another one...

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:08 am

Ha ha. I was coming on here to ask you your views on Lampard now!

Not to worry. Your guys have Swansea, Norwich and Stoke next three games. Could be in the champions league spots soon!

MON hated January at Villa!

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:29 am

Apparently we were a bit unlucky today MPB. Thought your boys had earned a rare home win but not to be. Im sure I'm happier to be on 24 points than you though.

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:10 am

I thought a win for Villa might be on the cards too but should have known.
I'm actually convinced we will go down. No doubt at all. The signing of Robbie Keane tells you all you need to know about where Villa are going. Imagine lining up against Keane and Heskey. You could play 0-6-4 against those two

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:15 am

Keane is a funny one, he was a quality player but clearly was being the crucial word. But he was a guy who had zero pace all his career so that can't be it. I genuinely think at his peak at Dpurs if he'd had a couple of yards of pace he would have been right up with the best in Europe.
But now he's crap....

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:22 am

Very crap!
9 goals or whatever it was at Celtic aside, he's hardly scored a goal since going to Liverpool and that was what, three and a half years ago?!

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by diggers on Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:27 am

Harsh, I think he scored 4 in 10 for the Galaxy. And that's a very high level league.... Innocent

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

Post by MustPuttBetter on Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:59 am

Oh that's a good point. Maybe he's refound his form......

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Re: Frank Lampard and Joey Barton

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